I guess left over corn in corn fields don't mold. How much proof is there that turkeys are dying from eating molding corn that is only at baiting sites?

PCP, you've seen my place and know it is small, probably too small and close in to hold many birds. However, I'd kept feeders out for the deer. I quit feeding this year after it occurred to me, while looking at pictures taken around the feeders, that I was feeding a lot more egg eaters than deer. In the future, what feeding I do will more likely be grown.

We were told for 30 years coyotes didn't impact deer populations.
A lot of those same people are still holding out on the Turkeys. Bobcat will get them for sure. Everyone agrees. But many will tell you a coyote can't catch a turkey. Well - even if Mr. Coyote's percentage isn't real high, his chances + Mr. Bobcat + Mr. Raccoon and any other nest raider + Hunters. Once any populations gets down to a certain level it has a hard time coming back.

Bottom line... if you have a lot of turkeys and a lot of coyotes. Pretty soon you'll have less turkeys. They score at least some of the time.

I admit I'm on the lunatic fringe about coyotes, I'm an alarmist for sure about them. I think they are killing everything out there that we hunt, and doing it much faster than everybody believes or will admit. They don't have any predators around here, we have the perfect habitat for them, and they are nose-hounds (so to speak)--they can find a nest with NO problem.

I agree. I hate coyotes with a passion. And it is NOT faster than I believe!! With so many animals after their eggs, it's a miracle we have any turkeys. I just think for me, coons get more eggs. But, who knows??

I agree. Is there any thought about aramdillos raiding nests?

Your asking 1 person in one very small part of the state. I'm no biologist, even though my step son is, so what I see is VERY limited and not scientific. I don't THINK armadillos are a problem. But most agree there IS a problem. Just what is the problem?? There needs to be a vast study done by biologist and try to find a solution. Same for the deer in my area. That would take a lot of time and $$$!!! Also, I think most would agree that IF we could eliminate coyotes, the world would be a better place. I HATE THEM!!!

Now, having raised hogs in the past, I could see them as a major problem where they are.

I'd say its gotta be the 60s. Many places went from no turkeys in the early 60s to booming populations by the end of the decade. I'm going from memory, but I think the largest harvest ever was around 2006.

Predator populations are definitely up, and that can't help the turkeys. My bounty program will take care of that. Knock the predator populations back and you will see more turkeys for sure. I think coons need to be killed more than the coyotes, but kill them all is my philosophy.

My theory on some of the places in north AL that have always been hardwoods and still are losing population is pretty simple. North AL was way behind south and central in getting turkey populations re-established. Some places in north AL haven't had turkeys all that long compared to the southern half.

When turkeys are introduced into a place they haven't been before, or at least haven't been in a long time, its natural for the population to explode. I've seen it happen in several places. I think its the fact that the predators aren't used to turkeys and it takes them a while to figure out how to locate the nests. Whatever the reason, when turkeys are re-established, the population quickly goes way up. It often goes up to a point that simply isn't sustainable. Newbies start turkey hunting for the first time and think its normal to hear 20 gobblers a morning. It isn't.

I think what many are seeing in north AL is nothing unusual at all - its just the population dropping back to a level that is normal. I saw this happen in Perry Co in the 60s and 70s. In the late 60s, you could see flocks of over 100 turkeys in the big fields along the Cahaba River from the highway most any day in the fall. It sounded like a turkey farm in the spring. By the mid 70s there were hardly any turkeys at all in that area. They soon recovered to a level that has been fairly consistent since.

If I hear 2 gobblers on my place on a spring morning, it was a good day. More than 2 is outstanding. It isn't that unusual to not hear one. It's been that way since 1990, when we started back hunting them after the place was clearcut in 1977. It ain't normal to hear 20 eastern turkeys in a single morning. If you experience it, enjoy it. It ain't gonna last.

Brad, I've got no idea if leftover corn in a field can poison turkeys. I've never seen any turkey that I thought had died from that. But Corky's article says there is plenty of research that shows baiting is bad, and it seems his main source is a MSU guy. Would Dr. Miller happen to be the MSU prof that must be teaching that gobblers sit on the eggs and help with raising poults?

Sorry, couldn't resist. As Troy says, its the Pale Rider avatar.

Hal, I'd love for you to vote for me, but Czars are not elected. They are appointed. Hopefully for life if I can get the next President to appoint me.

Where did you hear that?

PCP, I would have to say the 80's because I ain't that old!! Seriously, late 70's/early 80's is when I started turkey hunting. Also, there was a large turkey restocking going on in my area during this time. So, while my answer may not be correct, it's easy to see how I would draw that conclusion.

In that time I have seen a lot of fluctuations in population. This slump seems to have lasted a lot longer. Even before the drop, gobbling had about stopped. Many times I have seen coyotes slipping up on a gobbling turkey even though I have never seen one catch one. I believe that is the gobbling problem. Did I mention I hate coyotes!!

I personally think it's the wide spread use of Chicken Litter on farm land in North Alabama. With the cost of fertilize now a days farmers are turning to Chicken Litter. Sure is strange that turkeys started to disappear when more people started using litter.

Chicken chit is #1 on my list. Feeding doesn't help.

As for the varmints, if you all trapped and killed all nest raiding varmints you can, coons, possums, skunks. The coyotes will leave because the easy meals are gone.

The debate over aflatoxin in corn will go on and on. If it was serious you would think it would kill some of the 25 to 30 coons that raid most corn feeders every night. Corn probably does help coon populations expand and so there are more around to destroy nests.

I was in a 5000 acre club in MS that was basically a hobby farm for a rich, retired fellow who owned it. He ran it as a timber farm and burned about 1000 acres every year in February. He had a USFWS certified trapper come in for a month in the spring and a month in the fall who absolutely decimated the coyotes. There were trail cam pics of a 180" buck taken on the place and in the 3 years I hunted it, every longbeard I called up had two or three more with him except one who was so mean none of the others would get near him.

I think habitat enhancement (there are less coons and cotton rats in burned woods) and effective predator control is a step in the right direction. We don't all have 5000 acres to play with and timber companies don't burn to any extent any more but I don't think hiring a certified trapper is out of reach for most hunting clubs. While I don't remember the trapper's name, he was on a list supplies by MSU and the DWFP. This guy was death on coyotes though and it made a difference.

Just some food for thought. Hope it doesn't have aflatoxin on it.

Lots of blame going to coyotes. I'm sure they bare some responsibility, but focusing on JUST coyotes is just going to make it worse. Why? Because they help control the real avian predators. Coons, skunks, bobcats, etc., have a much bigger impact on turkey populations than coyotes and if you kill only coyotes, there will be more avian predators. If you trap, trap em all. If you predator hunt, hunt em all. Otherwise, you just may make it worse. Been there, done that.

I think a lot of people are trying to pinpoint exact causes of population declines, but I think it's a variety of factors that range widely in different regions of the state. All the aforementioned causes play some role, but I think spring weather has a greater impact than any of them.

And, to quote Cletus from a previous thread,

if aflatoxins killed the snot out of turkeys there wouldn't be a turkey left in Texas......

Sensible answer. I like that!

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074703.htm

Acceptable aflatoxin levels vary by species and maturity but poultry is in general a little more susceptible than some other species.

Also, a lot of the corn that ends up in bags labeled "deer corn" end up that way because they couldn't pass the quality standards (including aflatoxin levels) to be sold for feed.

All of the biologist bring up habitat improvement. That is not a real option in most of Alabama. When leasing paper or timber company land, you can't do any habitat improvement, other than adding foodplots, that's it. Even adding foodplots isn't a realistic option for some lease holders because the landowners don't want anything cleared that could be a place to hold loblolly pines. Our lease holder doesn't allow any of the land to be burned whatsoever, and the location of any new plots have to be approved by the company, and they cut during April, May, and June every year. I don't know if logging kills poults, but I'm sure they run over some nests with skidders.

Texas was at least recently still restocking in east Texas which would be more comparable to Alabama. West Texas is dry and wouldn't compare to Alabama. The molds that make aflatoxins like hot and humid.

I don't think it is all of the problem, but feeding wildlife definitely is a problem in many cases.