I won't call the store by name but I was in a particular establishment this evening that sold firearms. There were three people behind the counter, two guys and a girl, trying to help a young man who wanted to buy a pistol. Their ignorance blew my mind. The young man said he was 18 years old to which one of the guys said you aren't old enough to purchase a pistol. When he said that the other male employee said, "well there are ways around that", and proceeded to tell him to give the cash to an older friend and let him buy it for him. As the thought crossed my mind, "I can't believe he just said that, especially right in front of me, not knowing who I might be", the female had to speak up and show her ignorance. She proceeded to tell them the young man could buy the pistol, taking it with him, even though he was too young, as long as he said it was a gift for someone else who was old enough to own it. I decided to leave at that point so as not to be a witness of anything.

Well, it can't be Gander Mountain since there would never actually be three people behind the counter.

I think you need to make a phone call on that deal.

Dang Right...

That doesn't surprise me.

I'm guessuming that it was one of the big chain stores. I'd expect nothing different if it was.

My father in law came from out of state and asked my opinion of what would be a good choice for a CCW. Took him to Bass Pro Shop, which at the time probably had the best selection. Walked up to the counter and had an elderly fellow ask what we were interested in. Told him a 9mm CCW. He then told us what he'd been selling the most of. Turns out, a Smith and Wesson .500. Why was he selling so many? Border Patrol was buying them by the dozens. Why? Because they would penetrate an engine block. Turns out, this salesman was at one time on the Smith and Wesson shooting team. I was extremely surprised he wasn't Seal, sniper or tunnel rat in Nam.

Could be profitable as well......

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner.

That and no 18 year old in Alabama has a job that pays well enough to buy a handgun at Gander Mt.


But yeah they can be blisteringly ignorant of state and federal gun laws at such places. I mentioned that I had sold a rifle to another person in front of a couple of Wal-Mart employees at the gun counter one time and they started freaking out like I had confessed to smuggling cocaine into the country. Tried to explain that an Alabama resident could sell their own firearm to another Alabama resident as long as it was a face to face transaction. I don't think I ever convinced them.

It's not just big chain stores. I've been in dedicated gun stores and amazed at how ignorant the sales ppl were.

I usually just stand and listen and ill know shortly who's worth talking to.

You do realize that it is legal to own and buy a handgun at the age of 18 in Alabama don't you? Federal law prohibits the sale of handguns to anyone under 21 and that's what the FFL has to abide by.

What I thought as well. Just can't carry until 21 right?

My son is 17 and he already owns a few rifles and pistols. He's getting his concealed permit when he turns 18.

You have to be 21 to purchase a handgun under federal law. However, you only have to be 18 to carry a handgun. You can get a concealed carry permit at 18.

That place needs to be reported.

Sounds like Academy Sports to me. There's some clowns behind the gun counter at the one near me...and Gander too.

That's a good one!

And since the new laws were passed it is much easier to get a permit at 18 than it was in the past. Sheriffs must issue a permit now unless they have a valid reason not to. Before, at least here, they would not issue one to younger people unless you had a specific reason to carry and jumped through a lot of hoops.

If you have taken the time to post this and not made the "phone call" your putting all of us in danger, I would imagine that if they do this they will also give the answers to the FFL form....that can really be an issue

sounds like that was Mr. Joe - he's extremely knowledgeable in all aspects of shooting, reloading and a dang incredible fisherman.

sounds like they were just trying to help. why shouldn't they tell you the legal way to purchase. doesn't sound like they broke any law. you may want to read the 2nd amendment.

Google "straw purchase". Its highly illegal.

Yep....

I'll bet! Probably knows how to do crown molding and can put on a hell of an African safari, too.

I know very well what the 2nd ammendment says. I also know what a straw purchase is too. You may want to read up on that.

I know what a straw puchase is. but they are right in saying that a 18yr old can legally purchase a pistol from an individual or give or get one as a gift. he's got a right to own a pistol. not ignorant at all.

True but that's not what they were saying. Go back and read the original post. He was in a gun store and they were telling him how they could get around the law of him having to be 21 for them to sell him a pistol. Selling an 18 year old kid a pistol, letting him walk out of the store with it, all in the name of saying its a gift for someone is against the law. Giving cash to someone to buy a pistol in their name for him is against the law. They never said he could purchase a pistol from a private individual. Why would they? They are in the business to sell firearms, not give advice telling him to buy elsewhere. They were trying to make a sell, out of their store and was telling him how they could get around the law. One of the workers used the exact words, "how we can get around the law". Nothing legal about any option they were presenting him. Very ignorant of them, especially with me standing not 10' from them hearing every word. I could have been a LEO for all they knew.

well I do agree that they didn't err on the side of caution. but straw purchase is really ment to stop people from getting guns, who aren't allowed to have them. giving information on how to get around the law is not illegal that I know of. acting on that information might be.

Let them try a NICS check on an 18 YO for a handgun. That sell will be shut down very fast by then NICS agent.

As the selling agent, yes, giving that advice was indeed illegal. It is jo different than a package store clerk telling an underage person to give money to someone old enough to buy them a beer. The seller is the responsible party and suggesting what they did was both illegal and stupid.
I would have asked to speak to a manager and ask if they were aware their employees were suggesting illegal gun purchases to customers.

I agree. Having a conversation about how to get around the law is not illegal and I never said they did anything illegal. But, listening to the conversation, the young man was trying to buy a pistol and the employee was telling him how they could get around the law and showing his willingness to do so, which is ignorant. I would be willing to bet if the young man laid the money on the counter, he would have walked out of there with a pistol.

Just to add some perspective to this, I've been working sales at Larry's in Hsv for about a couple of months. Usually two- three days a week. For y'all who aren't familiar with it he is about the largest gun retailer in the SE. I'm on the used gun side and when the door opens there is not a break in sales till the door closes. Really busy. I get about one attempt at a straw purchase a day. I was taught how to spot them. If there is any suspicion whatsoever about it we terminate the sale. Sure they fuss and whine and get mad but we just tell them why we think it is and send them to see the floor manager. Usually a male/female couple, he shops,handles, questions, selects, and wanders off and she walks up with the gun and wants to buy it. But he's observing. And when it gets stopped he always steps in. Then its on. Folks also get really mad when delayed by the Feds. Interesting job.

8 years at bass pro hunting department. i sell guns. there is no way the 18 year old could legally buy that gun. he could buy a long gun (rifle/shotgun) but not a pistol. you cannot, by law, tell someone how to get around that. no way would i risk my licensure by BAFTE for a sale. we don't use manual 4473's nor do we call NICS. EVERYTHING is computerized. bass pro worked with BATFE to develop and implement the necessary software. the software is idiot proof.

well I guess I was wrong on this one then. stupid law though, who wouldve thought you could go to prison for just explaining a customers options.

I'd call the law...kid might be in your house one night at 2am

Just because he is 18? Heck that's kinda discriminatory. If he looked and acted like a thug or gangbanger maybe I might think about that but in all reality he has the same right to possess a handgun as a 50 year old. He can't buy from them but he can own one.

He's old enough to die in Iraq but not old enough to buy a pistol from a store....

My thoughts too. And if he shows up at my house at 2am he will get treated like any other uninvited guest.

Thats about the dumbest bull shucks I've heard anyways... It is like telling a kid that its legal for them to drink, but they have to get someone else to buy it...


I don't blame the people at the gun shop counter, I'd rather them be explaining ways a young man could get a gun, than jumping in with obama on taking them away..

ford150man if that is what you saw happen you need to call the store and tell the manager. Those employees could get into a lot of trouble and even if they mean no harm and and are just ignorant, the management needs to know.

And to expand on that, it is only against the law for a FFL to transfer the handgun to the 18 year old. It is perfectly legal for the 18 year old to buy a handgun face-to-face from an individual in his own state as long as that person is also a resident of his state.

As far as the original post goes, that store manager could be in a LOT of trouble if anyone followed through with the employees' suggestions. Whomever is responsible for the FFL at that location could be in a very bad situation along with any employee who did not follow the law. Most all of the transactions at the big box stores I've witnessed required a manager's approval for the transaction after the 4473 was approved by the FBI. If the 18-year old attempted to purchase the handgun via the 4473, he would be denied. However, if the store allowed an older adult to purchase it for him, then they would be allowing a straw purchase to take place (Felony), even though it would be legal for the 18 year old to own and possess the handgun due to the fact that he could not get approval on the 4473 on his own.

I agree that the manager should be notified ASAP. We do NOT need ignorance dealing with guns in the retail world. We have enough enemies as it is without creating more potentially bad situations from stuff like this.

Man, where have you been?

Look what the cat drug up.......

I've been busy. Boats, beer, beach time with the family, and a 1972 blazer in the garage have been keeping my attention away from here. That, and working what seems like non-stop for the last 18+ months.

First time I've been on here I guess since this spring. Saw a topic that peaked my interest, and I just couldn't resist.

Good to have you back man, we could use some good advice every now and then.

DEFINITELY! There has been some horrible advice and illegal practices condoned in this very thread.

Let me ask y'all this. Would it not be perfectly legal for a 21 year old to buy this gun, turn around, and sell it to the 18 year old for a dollar? I'm really not understanding why it's that big of a deal.

I'm willing to bet nearly every person who has commented in this thread had a parent or relative purchase a gun for you before you were 18. I see a bunch of people with double standards commenting here. If the advice was to get a person of legal age to purchase a weapon and then make a private party transaction, that sounds like good advice

Yes, I agree with you. But the law basically has intent in it. If you "intend" to keep it, you're good. If you change your mind a little while later, you can sell, but you can't do a straw purchase straight away.

I think we all agree that's a pretty ridiculous concept, but that's the rule.

And that concept is designed to prevent people from buying a weapon for someone who can not legally possess it. It would seem nearly impossible to convict someone for selling a weapon to someone else who may legally own it. Just my opinion. Specifically when "intent" comes In play

And that concept is what can and WILL land you in prison if you get caught.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-upholds-federal-ban-on-straw-purchases-of-guns-1402932979

More on the above case:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/supreme-court-tightens-definition-straw-purchase



The key point is that the firearm is NOT a gift if the person receiving the firearm pays for it. If the person buying the gun is reimbursed and the two people plan the original purchase ahead of time, then it is a straw purchase by definition and is a prosecutable offense. Since the check was sent before the purchase and the FOR line was filled out stating it was for a Glock 19, there was clear evidence that the purchase was pre-planned and that the buyer was given money to buy the gun prior to the transaction in the store. This is in clear violation of the law even though the intent of the law to prevent prohibited persons from acquiring guns was not broken.

In the end, our gun laws are silly and outdated, like a lot of other laws on the books. Handguns are as powerful as some rifles now. Who cares if a handgun has a 12" barrel but a rifle has to have at least a 16" barrel and a shotgun 18"? Why should I have to get permission and pay a $200 tax if I want to have a 12" barrel on my 22 rifle but I don't have to do that to have a 12" barrel on my .500 Magnum revolver? Why do I have to get permission and pay a $200 tax to put a muffler on any gun to help protect my hearing, but any car, motorcycle, ATV, chainsaw, power washer or weed eater I buy has a muffler included to protect my hearing when in operation?

The laws we follow in regards to firearms are draconian, but I am scared to death that even a GOP controlled congress and executive branch would mess things up and "compromise" with the left, taking away access to some things while granting access to others.

There is no violation of the law if you purchase the firearm as a gift for someone else who CAN legally own a firearm. But, it is a violation of the law if you pay someone else to purchase the firearm for you, even if you can legally own a firearm.

So, if the store employee suggested that their dad might want to a purchase a weapon like the one of interest and at a later date the original customer could legally purchase it privately if his dad decided to sell, that would be good "legal" advice from a gun counter employee?

Back to my original point, who the hell would want to turn the employee in? If the op was really concerned, he would have pulled the employee aside and told him to word his advice differently.

I would suggest that a gun counter employee should refrain from giving legal advice on ways to get around a law he is bound to abide by while doing business.

The fact is that the Manager or Responsible Party for the FFL isn't doing their job in making sure that the people selling guns are well informed of the laws and how to follow them. That is the person ultimately responsible, and that is the person that I would call to have a chat with, not someone from a three-letter agency.

In my opinion, gun counter workers should not give any legal advise. They should not have gone past telling him he was not old enough to purchase the gun.

They are not qualified to give legal advise, especially in this day of ever changing regulations and laws. The best advise it to give none.

No, that is them still giving advise on how to get around the law.

If there give any information, it should only be something like, you can not legally purchase from a FFL holder. But, there is nothing preventing you from purchasing the handgun from an individual.

Let me add this...and it goes to show where common sense is needed.

How many fathers or mothers on here have gone shopping and purchased a rifle or shotgun for their children's first gun? And mentioned that to the gun counter person? Even had child go to gun store to look at models and decide what they wanted?

I know I have. Obviously the parent is the real owner and buying for child to use under their supervision. But that is allowed because it makes common sense, and not a straw purchase to get around the law.

The 18 year old trying to work around the system...the person who couldn't pass a background check...that is what the strw purchase provisions are for.

Personally, If you are old enough to vote, join the military and die for your country...then you are old enough to buy any legal firearm you want. Would like to see that 21 age requirement changed. Or at least the same standard applied, regardless of age selected.

Take this story:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/09/geo...tcmp=latestnews

Replace "girlfriend" in the article with "21-year old friend" and then replace "boyfriend" in the article with "18-year old buyer" from the conversation the gun counter employees had in the original post.

I bet she never thought her boyfriend would do something like that. In the end, she'll do prison time and will be branded as a felon for her err in judgement.