If i get one a year i am happy i dont need to kill 5 , i understand some people live for it and i have no problem with it . I feel like predators are more detremental to lost turkey population than hunters are , i know if you kill 5 well thats 5 less than you had but God provides enough wildlife to replace what we harvest but we do need to manage what we have .
I personally am worried more about coyotes i would rather find more ways to get rid of them than anything else , they are a big problem and kill way more deer and turkey than people realize .

Matt Brock, thanks for all that you do. We can argue all we want, but having biologists who care about wildlife and work to satisfy both environmental and recreational needs is truly great. Thanks for all that you do. I for one am curious if turkey numbers or poult recruitment has dropped much in East/central AL. I did not see nearly as many birds during deer season this year, but have seen/heard more than ever this spring. Thanks.

Amen. Agree 1000%.

Everybody wants to throw coyotes under the bus, but they are nowhere near the top of the list on adult or poult mortality. Do they catch turkeys? Yes. Do they get as many as raccoons, opossums, skunks, bobcats, and feral domestic dogs? Not according to what we know.

Yet few folks want to truly commit to a hardcore year-round trapping program for all predators including hogs for a variety of reasons, including "we don't want anyone on our property" and "we like to shoot a hog now and then during deer season."

A somehwhat related side topic question, is it true that less than 50% of turkey eggs actually hatch, then around 80% die after the first two weeks? Because if that's true, it's a wonder I ever see a wild turkey!

Matt I didn't throw this at you and I'm sorry you took it that way. Its the according to folks and the might and could be people. I do know this,predators are a big problem and I'll always preach that. The best gobblin bird I been on back and forth throughout the season got spooked off yesterday morning. 2 coyotes came running/sneaking up on me right when I had him bout ready to pull the trigger. 1 of those yotes is in bad shape from 6s right in the face. Maybe it will kill him. Again, didn't mean to make it sound like you was at fault in any. You do your part because you care for wildlife and resources.

Sorry Bankhead. I took it that way. I apologize.

First off, Matt, no offfence intended. I know you and you do as good a job as any Bio out there, so not picking on you in particular. As a fellow biologist, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and commitment.

To answer your first scenario, I am NOT and never have been a fan of modelling to set limits, etc. I think the current crop of biologists, AND professors teaching them, rely entirely too much on computers to make their decisions. That is what is leading to the current Global Warming debates - Modelling. I was taught by the Dan Speakes, Lovett Williams, George Hurst, Keith Causeys of the wildlife research world. Field biologists and researchers who knew the woods and wildlife. The current computer modelling craze would and is nauseating. So, I would NOT be much in favor of a computer model to tell me when the season should start and finish and how many each person should kill. Too many variables and unknowns to ever put in a computer program.



The majority of hunters do not have the educational background to make decisions on bag limits and season lengths. Individual anecdotal data collection results in stupid regulations. Also too many diversified interests, that is why we have a game and fish division.



Those numbers are close to what I threw out, maybe a little later. I don't have a problem with shifting dates if it makes sense. Throwing out hen mortality with gobbler limits and season timing is a totally different scenario that we didn't talk about. Not part of setting gobbler limits if you ask me.



This discussion is NOT a sky is falling discussion or that the State IS going to reduce the bag limit. It is simply a debate on whether reducing the bag limit of gobblers makes sense. Everyone is throwing out their opinion - kinda like a debate.... hmmmm

I've often wondered why there isn't a later season for Birmingham north. Seasons like this year peak breeding is in April in my opinion. I appreciate all you state guys do, I just feel like a blanket limit reduction is probably the least effective route. Like I said earlier, I could get behind a limit reduction if there were some kind of facts presented to support it. Heck, I noticed on Hollins the other day that they burned a huge portion just recently. What the hell are they thinking? I'd like for everyone to be on the same page. Maybe allow some predator hunting during the summer on wmas?

Atoler, this is NOT to pick on you either but your comment makes my point beautifully! They were thinking that they would practice excellent habitat management. Matt, if the hunting public were made up of Atolers, we would ban burning for turkeys! That is why EDUCATION, not regulation is the best route.

You think that burning a thousand acres of prime select cut nesting habitat in mid April is a good idea?? Really???? I love burning. I don't like for it to be done in the middle of nesting time

They burned a huge chunk, possibly more than a thousand acres. It was all select cut mixed woods that looked to have been burned two seasons ago. Undergrowth was perfect for nesting pre burn. And it was still smoking last weekend......

Ever watch Troy Ruiz kill a gobbler and you can see the burn still smoldering in the background , thats a Primos hunt .

You are missing the point. Fresh burns are great turkey habitat. Burning a few dozen turkey nests is not real great though

I know what you meant i was just throwing that in there

"Seems like to me people would be glad to have a state agency that's trying to lead in efforts of sound management, and get on top of a problem to correct it instead of falling behind and hitting the panic button once something catastrophic happens."

I am, and think most of the others on here are as well. I went to here Joel's presentation about this project at Dadeville in March. It was an enjoyable, informative presentation. Thanks for what you've shared here.

Good! People that don't have deer bitched and got a restriction so by God lets restrict turkeys too. Hell Yeah, bring it. I ain't got any turkeys anyway so it would tickle the hell outa me.

Ya because that's exactly what people are doing. Its seems like to me hunters are reporting to the biologist what they are seeing and hearing in the field and the biologist are studying the issue before they make any recommendations. Soinds like the right way to do it.

In a word, Yes! Which is why I don't think succumbing to public pressure is a good idea from the educated and experienced Biologists at the State agency that makes hunting regulations. They have dedicated both their education dollars and their career choices and lives to natural resource and wildlife management - something VERY FEW hunters or other public participants have done! Most also read every research paper on their subject of interest every chance they get, also something most public resource users rarely do.

We burned around 700 acres of this place last Thu and Fri. Private hunting land that is on a 3-4 year burn rotation and has had MOST burns in the last 10 years being April and May burns. Their turkey population has skyrocketed based on these recommendations. I would rather turkey hunt this place than pretty much every other place in Alabama that I know of.

How many turkey nests did we burn up? I don't know but quite a few I am sure!

Link is a video - can't figure how to post it right! [img]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p261/gobbler06/th_IMG_0755_zpsxcvcdqxu.mp4[/img]