Yep. He can!

I think you could do just as good to use a mix of cereal rye, triticale, crimson clover, yuchi clover, turnips or radishes. That's the same basic mix and all very common seeds around here. I don't think the winter peas or the cbicory is a "must have" in there.

Yep… over the years there have been several on here that are convinced people are throwing away money that buy products from seed companies, such as Imperial Whitetail Clover, WMS, etc. I've run the numbers, called around to various seed stores, looked at mixing and putting in a big spreader buggy, etc., etc., etc. At the end of the day the savings, if any, is so negligible, that when I consider my time being worth something, the pre-mix, pre-enoculated seeds are a better buy IMO.

Also, might be worth noting that with WMS you only plant 50 lbs. to the acre, not 100…

Now, if i had a seed store and could buy in bulk…

Seems like many co-ops or seed stores have no idea what you're talking about if you ask for anything other than deer corn, trace mineral salt, or wheat. That experience has me less than inspired to go searching to replicate seed blends.

Anyone know of seed stores that seem knowledgable and stock the type seed we're looking for?

I’m not sure what the breakdown is of the mix but I’m guessing that the cereal grain portion is around 40 lbs. That rate is on the extreme low end of “normal” stocking rates or stocking density. Yes, I know it’s in a mix but the cereal grain is the main staple that carries any mix throughout the whole hunting season. If you have any significant amount of browsing pressure on your plots then I believe you need to plant at a higher rate no lower than 75-100 lbs on your cereal grains. The reason it tells you on the bag to plant at a very low stocking density is because noone would probably buy it if it was going to cost them $100 per acre in seed alone to plant. Just because they tell you to plant at the bare minimum stocking rate doesn’t mean that its necessarily the rate you need to plant either. Its just the rate that’s best for keeping their product affordable. I don’t want to try and keep up with the browsing pressure of 20-30 deer on a 2 acre plot using the bare minimum stocking density.

http://www.alseed.com/UserFiles/Documents/Product%20Info%20Sheets-PDF/Basics%20Triticale-2010.pdf

“Plant about 100 –120 pounds per acre. Use lower rate for grain production and higher rate for forage. Triticale does not tiller as much as wheat.”

I wouldn't expect you to consider another's opinion, but there are a lot of folks that have had a lot of success planting the WMS seed at 50 # per acre. A lot of us add 25 pounds of oats, but that's still coming in way under 100 to 120… maybe you should try it… we used this mix last year, during the coldest winter we've seen in years and the deer were hitting our fields past January up into Feb…probably never quit using them, but I quit hunting and didn't have any cameras out. Maybe some folks recommedn 100 to 120 to make more money or cause their germination rate is no count...

I think many WMS mixes include several brassicas/radishes/peas that will create shade on a fraction of the plot. Maybe WMS is taking into account the effect of other components in the mix. Most people overestimate the acreage of a plot anyhow and end up overseeding to some degree.

If your plots receive much browsing pressure at all then stuff like the radishes and winter peas will likely be consumed like a one-time snack. They will never get to the stage to shade anything out. I added winter peas to my mix this fall as a test and I just don’t see the bang being worth the buck. I plant radishes for soil improvement but my browsing pressure just seems to have gotten too high for that goal to be accomplished. I’m going to try them in the spring to see if I can get different results.

That being said, even if your radishes do grow and cast shade….when we up the rate of cereal grains, then you are increasing the number of grass stems per sq ft. So if you go from 50 lbs to 100 lbs then you are doubling the stocking density and doubling the amount of grass stems per sq ft. The radish in the mix may shade some of the plot but the remaining sq ft of area that’s not shaded will still have double the amount of cereal grain stems. Still though, I doubt there are a whole lot of people who are actually producing fully mature radishes on small acreage plots. I’m sure there are some. Most of what is carrying the plot through the winter though, in any plot, is the cereal grain.

The 40 lbs per acre stocking rate of the cereal grains in this mix is what is normally recommended as a nurse crop for establishing perennial clover plots. That doesn’t mean however, that it’s the best stocking rate for providing winter forage to an animal…..especially when there is any significant browsing pressure. Stocking rates for forage production are much higher than rates of nurse crops.

Does anyone have the seed % breakdown on the bag? I'm curious to see how much of each seed is used. I'm just taking a guess on the 40 lbs number.

We had fully mature radishes on our place last year.

For years I have bought a pallet of Abruzzi or elbon rye. This will plant 20 acres. I top seed with 4 or 5 types of clover after the rye gets up good and hopefully just before a rain. This year I wasn't able to plant the clover, but there was enough clover seed in my seed bank that I got a good stand of clover coming up anyway. Rye seed cost more than oats or wheat. The savings is in the fertilizer and cold doesn't kill it.

Yeah, cereal rye doesn't have near the N requirement as wheat. Its actually grown as a cover crop using no N. When you plant it in a food plot, grazing pressure is one of the things to consider when deciding how much N to feed it. It can grow without any but if you have a lot of deer eating on it....then you may want to step on the gas just a little. On the other hand, if you have a large acreage field or you don't have a high deer density, etc....then you can cut back on the amount of N you give it. Maybe to none at all. You don't want it to grow so fast that gets way ahead of browsing pressure and bolts....getting long and stemmy.

Cereal rye is also the fastest growing cereal grain and grows and lower temps than other cereal grains. This makes a difference when your trying to keep up with grazing pressure. The water oaks out here are literally raining acorns like I've never seen. Its really helped to take some of the pressure of my plot so far.

2Dogs......I know that you said you like it thick. Is this getting more to your liking?

Same azzhats told me it was illegal to sell MSMA and that no one could order it anymore. I called Dekalb Farmers Coop and they had a truckload. CD.

Plot looks great CNC.

You'd have them just as thick with half the amount of seed if you'd hook the disk up.

Well you know me and pictures 2Dogs. I just so happen to have a picture from several years ago of the same seed rate planted in the same field after disking. Doesn't look any thicker to me. To me it looks like my throw and mow method got just about the same germination rates or maybe even better as the disked planting.

Oh no....say it ain't so.

Thanks CD. Its raining acorns around here right now and its helping to take some browsing pressure off the plot. It needed it too after all that dry weather. Should be good to go now for the late season.

was that picture taken a a couple of weeks after planting or 6 weeks after planting, like the throw and mow appears to be? Plots will continue to get thicker over time…I know you already know that, but it would appear that the disced ground pic was taken not long after planting. Regardless, that plot looks pretty sparse. That is NOT what our plots look like after spraying, discing and broadcasting, with the WMS mix plus 25 lbs. oats.

You are correct, Sir. I don't think I've ever had any that were that thin. I think we are seeing why CNC is obsessed with soil improvement, that must be some of the most pitiful dirt in the state. Is there any plants that have been nipped? Looks like there are no deer there or they don't like what's growing for some reason.

Here's one of mine, I know, I know it's just after green up, but I think anyone could say that had to be one fine plot in the fall too. Ground worked up with an evil disk . I like pictures too, of big bucks, I really like dead ones in the back of my truck. Post up some bucks you've killed out of your plots. You show me yours and I'll show you mine.