Here is something else I did. I bought a meat thermometer and monitored soil temps. The first day I took the thermometer to the field the results were eye opening. These temps were taken around 1 pm at approx 2 inches deep.

The soil covered with thatch.........



The bare soil around the perimeter..........



So after I did that I thought I would monitor the temps throughout one whole day and plot them on a graph showing the differences. See how the soil covered in thatch stays much more stable that the bare soil. Living organisms do not like that type of daily fluctuation shown by the bare soil. The bare soil maxed out at 103.4 degrees that day.



This chart shows the importance of soil temps on plant growth.....

You've got a dern graph! For aldeer that's like a PhD in Engineering!

I'm trying it this year although late I planted my field last weekend I hope to have some results soon. I also have very sandy soil that is pretty rich but getting worse by the year due to tilling over the last few years.

Crimson, show them the before and after pictures of the test holes you dug in your plot. If that doesn't convince you, nothing will. It's not for everyone. I would start small, maybe 1/2 acre. Moisture, as always, is a key. Try small seeds first to build your confidence. Having that layer of thatch on top is key to holding that moisture and hiding the seed from the birds. I've done this same thing in the fall without the thatch, but i like having the thatch to build your soil. BTW, Crimson, I knew you wouldn't be able to stand it, you done brought it home. LOL

Some good information here. I enjoy reading your posts CNC and plan on trying similar methods in the future.

Good advice here ^^^^^

Here you go blum....These aren't the exact pics you were talking about but it shows a pretty significant change. This is what a handful of my soil topsoil looked like when I first started. It wasn't too far off from being able to run through an hourglass.



This is what a handful of my topsoil looks like now.

Thanks Howton.....I'll try to post this same stuff on this thread but if you just want something else to read on the subject here is another thread I have going on this topic on another site. If you look on the first page you'll see a link to part 1 & 2 of the thread. It goes all the way back to when I first attempted this. It also has a bunch of links and videos along the way that will really help you have a full understanding of "why" we plant this way.

http://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63873

This is great information, Basically I should never even use a disc again. would wheat suffice as a cover crop? Rye gets to high for me. What about crimson clover, could I have clover patches then come spring just ride through my fields with my peas and broadcast then mow the clover and fertilize. If that's the process I will never plant any other way bc I end up doing tons of tractor work

CNC, I believe you have told us before that you don't have to add lime much anymore, but if you did need to, would you disk it in or just spread it on top?
The reason I ask is I'm gonna try this, this year on a couple of our fall plots but they need lime. So if I have to disk it in, no plow will have to wait til next year I guess.

No…to say you will not have to use lime is not completely accurate. Let me see if I can explain this concept without getting too long winded.

With this process the goal of nutrient management is to continually build fertility and minimize any waste due to leaching, etc….To illustrate what I’m talking about let me tell you about my soil tests when I first started. When I first turned this old pasture into a foodplot it had sat fallow for many years. I did a soil test and found out that my pH was 6.8 and my Ca levels were around 1100 lbs/ac. After tilling for a couple years, I burned up all of that organic matter that had built up in my soil over the years from things like weeds and bermuda grass. As a result of losing that OM, my soils holding capacity fell dramatically. In only a couple years, I went from a pH of 6.8 to a pH in the low 5’s with Ca levels below 300 lbs/ac. Why?…Because 300 lbs/ac is all my soil could hold anymore. The OM represented the majority of it holding capacity. Sand sucks for holding water and nutrients….OM is outstanding for doing so.

So typical traditional methods would apply a couple tons of lime a continue tillage. However, the continued tillage, especially in sandy soil, just insures that you will keep all of the OM burnt up. From that point on you have no more nutrient and water holding capacity than just what you get from your “base soil”...basically the clay content. For someone like me who has a soil CEC value of 3.8, that isn’t very much…..200-300 lbs of Ca per acre if that. So basically what happens is you are adding 2,000 lbs of Ca (or whatever amount) to a soil that will only hold 300 lbs. Where does all that Ca go? It leaches away until you are back down to the amount that the soil will hold. Folks grow crops during this time of leaching and have success but don’t realize how inefficient they are really being with all that lime…..especially when our N starts bonding to that excess Ca floating around with nothing to bond to. Then you begin really wasting money. Depending on your soil type, it usually only takes a couple years for your Ca to leach away and you’re soil is right back on the basement floor…..and the process repeats itself over and over and over and over…..continually reaching for your wallet to throw more $$$ at degraded soil.

Here’s the difference in the method I’m using. By building OM over time and not burning it up….I’m continually growing my soils ability to hold nutrients…increasing CEC. I will test it later this year but my soil should be getting back to where it can now hold onto maybe say 800-1000 lbs of Ca per acre just to throw some numbers out there. I brought in a lime truck earlier this spring to make that initial jump off the floor. I actually held off doing so to allow my soil to build up that layer of OM you see first. That way I would be able to hold more of the large amount being added. As I keep adding OM over the years and increasing my CEC levels….then I will gradually be able to hold more and more Ca, K, N, H20, etc…..So its not correct to say you will never add any more lime because as my soil is able to hold more then I will add a little at a time to keep the bucket topped off. Ideally, I’d like my Ca levels to increase from 900…to 1000…to 1100…and so on. If you look at the Midwest, they have soils that can hold 4,000-5,000+ lbs of Ca per acre. That’s far beyond anything I’ll ever be able to achieve though because my potential is limited by the sandy soil base that I have to work with.

So like I was saying, its not accurate to say we will never have to add lime again….but the reasons we are adding it and the efficiency with which we use it will be much different. I will never again go back down to 300 lbs per acre with a bottomed out pH.

I'd use a mix of crimson, yuchi arrowleaf, and durana. You could probably get away with using wheat but I'd seriously look into all the benefits of cereal rye. It far out performs wheat in many different ways. It's root system is one of the major foundations for stabilizing our OM levels

Great info and updates. Looks like your soil and plot are rocking right along!

Thanks Clem.....

Turkeymaster, here is a link to some information on cereal rye. If the rye gets too thick for you...a timely mowing in the spring as the rye gets waist high or so, will help that issue greatly. It will also release the clover which will then begin take over small patches.

http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Book...rops/Cereal-Rye

Here's an example of how mowing thinned out the rye and allowed my clover to come through.

Other options are to just leave the rye standing and never do anything. The rye will provide the clover will shade. Its a great way to get clover established. This requires that you plant your rye at a little bit lower rate. I got a little to thick with my rye with this stand but it still worked as now the durana is filling in underneath even still now in July...although this heat is starting to take its toll.

Here is another option you have using this method. This is the same field from the original pics. I mixed in a little bit of durana with my fall mix last year so after I mowed everything to begin my summer planting that I'm showing pics of....the durana jumped back up and started filling in the understory. I'm going to add some more durana seed to it this year to see if I can make the clover more prolific. I only threw in a handful of seed last year. Lots and lots of options.........

Thank you Sir!

are you a biologist?

I would have never ever considered some of your techniques... Thank you for sharing your wisdom... I know I am better off and so my deer will be too!

Well like I figured I have a decent crop where I had good soil and poor germination in my sandy areas. I will post pics when the field gets a little higher this is only day 6 since I planted.

Thanks blackmouth.....I hope you have some good luck using some of these techniques. They sure have made things much simpler for me. No, I'm not a biologist.

Don't get discouraged. This is just the starting point. One of the things that makes this method so much fun is how you're continually progressing toward better soil and better plots and seeing the progress with your own eyes. Once you're able to get enough above ground biomass growing that you can lay down a good solid thatch layer across your soil, then things will get much easier from there. Remember, we are not top sewing seed in the traditional manner. We don't want to just throw seed on top of the ground uncovered. The thatch layer is very important.