LOL, I haven't hunted it in 4 or 5 years. Guess that blows your theory.

???? I defend it and do not hunt there. Barry defends it and does not hunt there. If you open it up to anyone and everyone, it would be the biggest cluster you have ever seen and the program would be dropped after the first year due to lawsuits by every neighboring land owner.

If you guys are bitching about not having public land to hunt in this area, Cahaba WMA is just down the road.

The selection of hunters is a vital part of the program. Not only do they have to be good bow hunters but they have to have the right attitude.

Another vital service is in the policing of the hunters. Let's say a hunter breaks the game laws while hunting there and gets caught by one of the park officials. The hunter gets a ticket from the officer. But, the DCNR doesn't pull licenses for a game violation. BHA will pull their permit and remove them from the program. Has already happened. The hunter was "fired" while he was still standing in the woods with the officer via phone from the captain.

Also, if a hunter breaks the UDCP rules about conduct and get's in an argument or fight with another user group member. The DCNR can't ticket for that but BHA can and will remove the hunter from the program.


Conduct, attitude, image, effectiveness, compliance with rules, all of these items are important.

OM is not a WMA. During deer season, hunters make up probably 99% of the individuals on the property at any given time. On OM the hunters probably make up at most 1% of the individuals on the property at any given time. Big difference.

to the BHA!

They can't open it up like a management area, taxpayer owned or not.

I defend the program as well and I've never applied to hunt it.

No dog in the fight here but how many of the naysayers actually do? Here's my $.02. whether you want it to be like the way it is or not, you might as well assume that it is a club. It's a very well ran club. If you pay dues to hunt a 15k acre lease, you will get less support and more buddy system problems and you will pay more. Do you know of any other associations stepping up and offering a free service to improve the deer herd in OM? There would be plenty of room to speculate if the results were not obvious. If you don't like the way it's run, do your part and let it be known in the correct venue. Otherwise, hunt the WMAs or pay your $1k+ to hunt a lease and deal with belly aching over how he shot "your deer". I personally do not wish to do this for the same reason I lease my land with only a few of my family members, I simply like to have more options of when and where and how I hunt. As long as I follow the state regs of hunting, I don't have to follow "club rules" if I don't want to.

Sorry for the long, and probably terribly auto corrected, post but I don't see what the big problem is if the BHA is producing desired results. As Shaw said, it's not a WMA. So, why run it like one?

It is a very well ran program that accomplishes the desired results with no problems or complaints.

I do think it is funny that Big Jack's ghost comes back to haunt the program each year!

Everyone, including myself is a critic. most critics on this forum seem to be advocates for equal rights or are underprivileged(simultaneously lacking proper hunting experience).

Just for the record...

I think the program is fantastic and I'm sure it's well run because the results and support are there. That's great! However, I'm complaining about the lack of communication and transparency of the program. If you deny an applicant at least have the courtesy of telling them why so they can move on. An email would be just fine. At least this way you know that someone actually took 30 seconds to look at your application. Otherwise, the program either looks like a buddy hunting club with members abusing the privilege granted by the state or it looks like new applicants aren't being considered, which really would be the same thing.

Also, I realize that difficult decisions have to be made as a part of the selection process (assuming it's not a buddy hunt club) and I'm glad I don't have that responsibility but I do see flaws in that selection process:

- Having 20 years experience does not make you a good bow hunter.
- Writing whatever comes to mind on an application and then passing a proficiency test does not make you a good bow hunter.
- The application does not require nearly enough information to make an educated decision on who should be considered for an interview or proficiency test.
- Selecting applicants based on their "good faith" harvest record is not reliable for two reasons. First, how many golfers are 100% truthful about their handicap? I don't know very many. Most experienced bow hunters that hunt as much as I do could in fact harvest 1-3 does per week if they really wanted to. I choose not to because I'm typically alone, after a 1-2 mile hike through very similar terrain to OM and it's not worth the drag. Not to mention that I can't eat 30 deer by myself. I would not hesitate to harvest as a part of the UDCP because...well it's a control program and that's what you signed up for.

The fact that BHA has not posted any information on the BHA forum about the UDCP in 3 years up until yesterday (ironically)...the fact that NOBODY seems to have ever received a response other than to call Mike at this number that nobody answers and you can't leave a voicemail...and the fact that the same people you can count on one hand kill the majority of the 60 kills every year sure looks like a buddy hunt club to me.

I don't have the facts or the hard numbers but if you have only a select few carrying the program in terms of kills then it sounds like you need to replace not 10 members of the 60 every year but more like 50 members. Based on everything I've researched that replacement is definitely not happening.

More transparency and communication would be great and would possibly even quiet this debate that apparently comes up every year.

Spot on ^^^^^^^^^^^^^, if the goal is getting deer killed get killers in on the hunting. Tell the hunters the bottom 40 based on kill numbers will be replaced each year and I bet the kill numbers jump tremendously hence doing what the program was designed to do reduce the herd.

So if that program were implemented then Mangler just got mad because he didn't have the proper time to learn patterns and become a productive hunter. There is NO way to please everyone. The program is successful as is, based off of adult doe body weights and general health of the vegetation compared to when the program started.

Most people hunt alone at OM also. Why would a 1 mile drag over multiple high ridges be worth it there. Honest answer is that it's not to most people and probably wouldn't be to you if you choose to pass deer in other similar places due to proximity to a vehicle.

Sounds like s bunch of bitching women on this thread cause someone or some people didn't get what they want

Great post jdsbama. BTW, give me a shout if you need some help brother. I hunt alone %90 of the time out at cahaba and I'm off a lot during the week. I wouldn't mind dragging one with you..... I may need the favor returned. Haha

Replaced with whom? Just how many applications do you think BHA gets each year?

Okay guys, we seem to have some folks that are not interested in the program complaining about it when they don't have a dog in the hunt.

Let me give you a list of the reasons why most hunters don't apply.
I am not going to pay the annual pass fee to the park!
I am not going to join BHA
I am not going to join the UDCP
I am not going to take the IBEP course
I am not going to take the proficiency test
I will cross the golf course when I want to
I will not take my deer to the processor
I will not ride to the front gate and sign in when I have access into the other end via a friend's property.
I am not going to drag a deer over 100 yards
Why can't I drive my 4 wheeler into the woods to get my deer?
If someone messes up my hunt, they are going to hear about it.
The guys killing all the deer should share their places.
And I am sure I have left some out.

jbsbama,

You are correct, there should be info on the BHA website. The new BHA website does not have it on there. The old one did. Hopefully, they will get that corrected.

Look at the 'programs' tab and select UDCP. Every bit of information you need is right there. With exception of maybe the more recent press releases. I am thinking they put out one after each season.

Thanks Kenny, I knew it should be there somewhere.

My buddy got in on that and he said if you shoot a deer and tell the park ranger you are gonna unload your 4wheeler to retrieve it they will let you