How much does it cost?
Does the height of the understory influence the price?
If the understory consists of mostly honeysuckle/green brier and doesn't get much sunlight is it worth it?
Are the native grasses that grow in heavily thinned quail plantations better for deer than honeysuckle and green brier?

I hunt leased timberland, thinning pines to 20/acre isn't an option but I would like to learn ways to improve what I do have.

Do not know the cost their in Al but yes it is worth it. Burning is one of the most economical ways to manage your land for both Tmber and Wildlife. Thinning also does well and no you do not have to thin it back to 20 trees to the ac. Thinning back to about 60% basal area is a good compromise for timber and wildlife managment. Can go to 50% but that is really starting to get thin.

Ken

I'm ignorant of this terminology. Could someone please explain "basal area" to a layman? thanks

Also, how old do pines have to be to withstand a burn?

Cost is typically $14 +
Height of under and mid story does not influence cost. Sometimes super high fuel amounts might.
It is nearly always worth it but completely shaded overstory conditions make the value less. Often, a couple fires can burn out the midstory over time.
The native grasses are not food. They are bedding cover and fawning cover. However, the plants that grow with these grasses can be better than the greenbriar, etc since there is usually more legumes and more volume. For instance, this has good food, cover, bedding area, and can hold more numbers of deer at the same health than the next.


and certainly this

Basal area defines the area of a given section of land that is occupied by the cross-section of tree trunks and stems at their base. It is defined also at "breast height" and is expressed in square feet (not a percentage) per acre. An acre is 43,560 ft. sq. A high basal area would be 150 ft sq and above. That is only .3% of the ground covered by tree trunks but is still a lot! Standard first thins usually cut to a 70 BA for forestry. We cut first thins to a 60 BA for standard wildlife. Quail cutting usually is below 50 BA.

Longleaf can be burned when they are 2 years old (yes there are 10" tall trees in there!)


These are about 4 or 5



Loblolly can be burned about 8 yrs or @ 15' tall (don't try this without adult supervision )

Is that estimated cost $14 per acre?

My family's property is quickly headed toward your third photo. (Pine canopy is choking all understory growth.) Pines were planted about 12 years ago, nothing has been done since.

Would the first step be to burn or thin to the prescribed basal area?

Does the harvested timber from the thinning pay for the operation / generate any profit?

When our land was clearcut (being basically a "virgin" hardwood forest here in NW AL), the ridge tops were planted in pines and large portions of the hollows were left to recover naturally. Are these natural areas ever thinned or burned for wildlife, and what measures (if any) might improve the chances of my descendants actually seeing a decent stand of oak trees?

These guys have some good info:
http://www.aces.edu/forestry/wildlife/prescribedburning.php

As do these
http://www.afoa.org/meetings/VM101028/VM101028_agenda.htm

Yes, $14/acre

If the stand looks like the 3rd photo it is in need of a thinning. Just got to make sure it does not turn into 2nd photo with sweetgums and mid-story choking out the understory. The 2nd photo is the type of mid-story that can be burned out with a few fires, especially in June-September. A burn in complete shade and pine needles will do little good except to lower fuel levels.

I like a burn first but a lot depends on the site.

A good first thin with a good logger should generate $100-150/acre off standard forestry thin density. This would pay for about 10 burns!!

Natural regeneration is thinned as are hardwood stands. Again, a lot depends on the site. Burning in hardwoods is not out of the question but there has to be a good reason.

That 3rd pic in your first reply is what I kill all of my deer out of. It ain't purty but the deer sure like to walk through it.

Thanks, I'll check out those links.
I love lookin at your habitat pics goobler, keep 'em coming in the future.

Thanks, I got a ton of 'em

The 3rd pic is representative of a LOT of Alabama and SUCKS as wildlife habitat but if that is all there is they can survive in it
This is what I see and kill most of my deer out of






If I can't see forever, I get bored

It grows deer like this - 143" 3 yr olds


This is a video of what the 3rd pic looked like in August
http://www.youtube.com/user/2gobbler?feature=mhum#p/a/u/1/mUCQyJhtJBg

and a couple pics