doctor bill and closed casket take it somewhere else, Elkhunter has one of the best websites and easy to use as I have ever seen, sounds to me like a joke, you have 5 doctors wanting to go hunting and your giving everyone the run around, elkhunter is the best in my opinion, if you have 5 doctors start your own hog killing business. I haven't even heard of the other people you are talking about, here locally its elkhunter, he can put you on the hogs, sorry for getting irate,Blake

With all due respect, silencers make a difference; especially when you're shooting at night.

Even with supersonic ammo, they help to save some of your hearing. I'd rather be exposed to 140db than 170db.

They tighten groups, reduce felt recoil, eliminate muzzle flash and reduce the tendency of new shooters to flinch.

All of this^ with supersonic ammo.

With that said; they still spook the animals. Even with subsonic ammo.

Try it sometime, and you'll not want to shoot without one.

oh lord here is another one

Why pay $1,000 for a silencer if it is only really going to help on your hearing. Our Walker Game Ears do that for much less.

"reduce felt recoil" on a 223?...really....now that is funny. Guess ya'lls 223s must kick really bad.....LOL

Wow, I feel welcomed. I've been registered on this site for 2 years, but I mainly lurk.
Silencer Benefits

I'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions that get reiterated about silencers. I'm not trying to sell anything. Knowledge is free.

If you want to be rude to me, then that's free too.

Suppressors, where legal for shooting game animals, no doubt would assist with less spooking and, obviously, the noise reduction. And they're fun to use.

Wearing some Walker's Game Ear Alpha Muffs with the noise suppression circuit, or other muffs or hearing protection with that instant shutoff circuit, takes it even lower to 95 decibels. Good to have for everything from shooting to running a weed whacker in the yard for 20 or 30 minutes.

SSS,

Wasn't trying to be rude. If you took it that way, I am sorry. Was just commenting on the stated benefits of silencers. I contacted HogRush months ago about them. I have also talked to several folks that have them. There is no doubt they are cool. But, I decided the cost far exceeded the benefits. So we purchased Walker Game Ears instead and have been very pleased with them.

@ElkHunter.

That's a straw-man argument. Here's why:

1st> I never said .223
2nd> I never said that recoil was painful. I only implied that recoil is not desirable and that silencers reduce it.
3rd> I never said that the only reason to buy a silencer is for hunting. I use them in competition shooting too.

I have no kids, therefore I have extra funds. If you don't want to buy one, then don't. But you shouldn't spread myths about something that you don't even own.

Recoil on any rifle delays your ability to get onto the next target. So does muzzle flash in front of a PVS-14. When shooting hogs, I want as little recoil and flash as possible.

My comment about being rude was to tc308, not you ElkHunter. With that said, I do consider it to be a breach in etiquette to use logical fallacies in a debate.

When hunting with a can, I've always managed to spook the animals I'm shooting at. I could imagine though that critters a few hundred yards away may not get so spooked.

The combination of electronic hearing protection and a silencer is a great combo. A 130db impulse (supersonic crack) is loud enough to cause some damage (though much less than unsuppressed).

When hunting on damage control permits, the game-wardens usually recommend that we use silencers so that they don't get false calls on non-existent poachers.

What myth did I spread?

I did make an assumption about the 223. Most folks seem to think a 223 is great for hogs. In my opinion it is too small. We shoot 308s.

Since this thread was about hog hunting, I didn't address my comments toward competition shooting. That is entirely a different subject. And you didn't mention kids. So, bringing them up now is changing the context of the message.

Our shots probably average under 50 yards. Our guns are plenty accurate for what they are asked to do. They are good out to 200 easy. And if I can't get the hunter closer, that is my fault.

Our thermal optics are top notch. I have NEVER had a flash problem with any of them. And I have been killed several hogs out of a sounder running. We have a few tricks up our sleeves that enable our hunters to stay on target and steady.

What do suppressors cost these days? Texas, among a couple of other states, legalized them this year for deer and other hunting. Still have the federal permit hoops to jump through.

"When hunting on damage control permits, the game-wardens usually recommend that we use silencers so that they don't get false calls on non-existent poachers."

We call the local officer and let them know we will be hunting in the area that night. We tell them where in the county and on who's property. I have never even had one ask me if we shoot suppressed. They simply just say kill them all.

This one:


They do help. My previous posts enumerate the benefits.

And this one:

Silencers help more than your hearing. Again, my previous posts state the advantages beyond hearing protection.

And this one...

223s do recoil. The recoil is extremely light. But they recoil enough to change your sight picture. Silencers improve shot to shot performance.


Now, I'd like to address this:

Your previous quote about spending $1000 for a silencer and comparing it to electronic ear protection was a red herring. I used the point about competition and not having kids to nullify your red-herring by pointing out that silencers are not just overpriced hearing protection. My point is only as a rebuttal to show that part of the cost can be spread across other hobbies and that each person's income and cost justification may be different. This addresses the cost side (silencers are multi-taskers) and my previous posts address the value side of the equation.

Additionally, I use my competition rifle to hunt. I prefer not to need to re-zero between outings. If you have a company and dedicated gear, then great. But individuals like me tend to require more versatility.


My experience is similar. 50 yards to a sounder of hogs at night is the magic number. I submit that accuracy still matters. Here's why:

Hogs run after the first shot is fired. 50 yards turns to 75, then 100. The importance of accuracy increases every second until they disappear into the trees or are left to make dirt angels. If I can change 1MOA into .75MOA or .5, I want to do it. Everyone's budget is different, so it may not be worth the expense to them.

My point before we digressed was that silencers improve accuracy. Remember, this was a rebuttal to the straw-man argument that they only help your hearing.

Now for this one:



Great. If you're using a $5K+ thermal, then you don't have to worry about muzzle flash (except for your non-dominant eye). I 'm still saving my pennies for a Thor and I don't have a business hunting hogs, selling gear, etc. This point seems to be a tangent from the core argument that silencers aren't that useful.

In closing, I don't have a dog in this race. I only jumped into this pissing contest because I want silencers made legal for all hunting in Alabama. I don't care who anyone uses for a paid hog hunt, or who advertises what where. Silencers are useful and there's plenty of good data to back that up. If you want to debate the point to the contrary, then I'm game.

ElkHunter, I mean you no disrespect. I love shooting and love shooting with silencers. I'm passionate about the subject and I want to do what I can to promote their usage.

I'm argumentative, but I will yield to logic and reason.

Prices, quality, etc. vary:
http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=14_18
http://www.advanced-armament.com/Silencers_c_16.html

It's not a permit per-se. It's a transfer tax. Many myths exist about the NFA process.


Here's the short story:

I used quicken willmaker to make a trust and had it notarized.
I then purchase my silencers and send in the Forms 4 to the ATF with a copy of my trust and $200 per item.
~6 months later (it used to be ~3), they send a stamped form to my dealer and I go pick up my can(s).

You do not give up your 4th amendment rights.

Owning NFA items do not allow the ATF to come and do an inspection of your home, this is BS.

You do not get a "Class 3 License", you get an approved form with an excise tax stamp applied.

There are probably more myths, but these common ones come to mind.

Instead of turning this into a book going back and forth, call me.

Barry Estes
334-301-0179

Thanks, SSS. Good luck with your efforts to get suppressors legalized for hunting. I hope you're successful.

Let me just reference what got me started in this debate. I respectfully and rationally pointed out several facts about silencers for clarity:



My post was met with a touch of ridicule:





Since then, I've responded clearly, concisely by using logic and reason without entering into an emotional rant. For that matter, no one here has acted butt-hurt and for that I commend you.

I feel that my responses can be supported by evidence and that I've accurately and successfully refuted any claims to the contrary.



It's already lengthy, but it is what it is. In my mind, it leaves no further room for fruitful discussion. Let's just leave it so. Elk, I've got no grievances with you and I prefer to keep debates in the open. Society just works better that way.

Before this turns into a book. You said you would take logic.

You started this post by saying it benefitted shooting at night. I doubt I was the only one that took that as hunting.

1. With that said, you admitted they still spook animals.
2. Our hearing protection protects better than a silencer (95db vs. 140db)
3. Our optics run from $8K to $13.5K. They are awesome. Flash is no problem.
4. Our hunters each have a Primos tripod shooting stick to prop on. They are super steady and allow the hunters to swing within their range of fire safely and accurately

My statement was, "Unless you are shooting subsonic it really doesn't help as much as the guys act like it does." I didn't saw they weren't useful or beneficial. I said "as much".

So, with my 4 points, I decided that they cost far exceeded the benefit. That doesn't mean I won't ever buy one and it dang sure doesn't mean they are not cool and useful.

I hope that clears up my statements.

You are still welcome to call me.

ya'll have got to tell me or one of the moderators about these guys trying to advertise for free when they pop up. Elkhunter pays good honest money to advertise on here and have an honest business.
If you want to go on a paid hunt with someone who will not do business honestly then you also need to ask if they are hunting honestly and putting your safety first as well.

As for the silencer argument, I'm staying out of that one...

just go elkhunter, and stop the headaches