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Gun Rights Battle Here at Home #346548
06/07/12 11:25 AM
06/07/12 11:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline OP
Booner
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Warrior River Country
I was in Anniston yesterday to support a fine young man who believes in exercising his right to bear arms for defense.

Jason Tulley was charged with carrying a pistol onto property not his own or under his control in the city of Jacksonville, Calhoun County, Alabama. He was found guilty in Jacksonville Municiple Court and the Calhoun County Circuity Court.

You don't have to go to Washington D.C. or any liberal gun-grabbing state somewhere far up north to find politicians and law enforcement agents who want to violate your right to bear arms for defense. They are here in our own backyards.

The Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals will soon be presented with a challenge to the following law that currently appears within the Code of Alabama 1975:

Quote:
Section 13A-11-52
Carrying pistol on premises not his own; who may carry pistol.

Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control; but this section shall not apply to any sheriff or his deputy or police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties.

(Acts 1919, No. 204, p. 196; Code 1923, 3487; Code 1940, T. 14, 163; Code 1975, 13-6-122.)


That's an act of our own Alabama Legislature. Each of the members who voted to pass it swore to support our Constitutions.

The officer that arrested Jason was an off duty municiple police officer who was armed with a pistol on property not his own or under his control, and who was not acting "... in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office" at the time he saw Jason with his pistol. He was moonlighting as a security guard at the time and he was armed with a pistol carried openly on his belt in a holster... just like Jason.


Constitution of Alabama 1901
Quote:
SECTION 26
Right to bear arms.

That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.

SECTION 35
Objective of government.

That the sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property, and when the government assumes other functions it is usurpation and oppression.

SECTION 36
Construction of Declaration of Rights.

That this enumeration of certain rights shall not impair or deny others retained by the people; and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, we declare that everything in this Declaration of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate.
(emphasis added)

The statute is being challenged, not on the grounds that it violates the right to bear arms, but on the grounds that it is unconstitutionally vague. It does not fix a punishment for it's violation. The judge sentenced Jason and fined him in spite of that.

- The defense argues that the statute violates the defendant's right to due process of law under the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution by not giving proper notice of the punishment that results from a violation of the statute.

- The defense also argues that the statute has been superceded by COA 13A-11-73 which allowed the sheriff of Calhoun county to issue the defendant a pistol license which allows him to carry a pistol onto property not his own or under his control. The defendant was in possesion of a pistol license at the time of the incident.

The arresting officer was not charged with his own violation of the statute.

Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346567
06/07/12 12:09 PM
06/07/12 12:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline OP
Booner
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Warrior River Country
When this judge faces re-election, you might want to consider sending his opponent a donation with an explanation of why you are supporting the opponent:

John C. Thomason, Circuity Judge Calhoun/Cleburne County

A judge who violates his oath of office to support our constitutions does not deserve to be delegated judicial authority.

This judge is a republican.

Sometimes it's best to vote democrat. It all depends on the individual's political philosophy. This one has liberal tendencies, IMO. I would vote for a conservative democrat in a heartbeat if that's what it took to get someone like this judge out of office.

Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346618
06/07/12 02:02 PM
06/07/12 02:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline OP
Booner
49er  Offline OP
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Warrior River Country
I am not a lawyer, but Charles Graddick is a lawyer. In fact, Graddick is a judge who recently ran for the position of chief justice on our state supreme court.

His office submitted this opionion back in 1984:


(Clink on this link to open the opinion)
Graddick's opinion on 13A-11-52

Choose carefully before you vote for judges in an election.

Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346628
06/07/12 02:19 PM
06/07/12 02:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,677
Montgomery
bamaeyedoc Offline
Old Mossy Horns
bamaeyedoc  Offline
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Montgomery
Well let's see, what would you do in this scenario if it happend to you?

About 6 months ago, one of my employee's son comes strolling in to my office with a Glock strapped to his hip in plain sight. He was coming by to get something from his mother. I had a waiting room of patients at the time. He's a nice enough guy but he isn't the most presentable looking fellow. Kinda disheveled and a little sloppy looking. The staff and patients were totally freaked out as was my staff who saw him. I was livid.

My office manager immediately asked him to either leave the premises or put the gun in the car and come back in. He got upset and so did his mother. He claimed he was on his way to the firing range. I mean who thinks it's ok to walk into a doctors office with a cannon strapped to your thigh?

I don't give a damn if you have a permit or not. NEVER come into my office or on my property with a gun unless you are a uniformed policeman or a detective with a badge showing.

Dr. B


AKA: “Dr. B”
Aldeer #121
8-3-2000
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Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: bamaeyedoc] #346631
06/07/12 02:28 PM
06/07/12 02:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline OP
Booner
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Warrior River Country
Here's what the law says about what you should do:

Quote:
13A-7-1
...(4) ENTER OR REMAIN UNLAWFULLY. A person "enters or remains unlawfully" in or upon premises when he is not licensed, invited or privileged to do so. A person who, regardless of his intent, enters or remains in or upon premises which are at the time open to the public does so with license and privilege unless he defies a lawful order not to enter or remain, personally communicated to him by the owner of such premises or other authorized person.
(emphasis added)

Most people will honor a no-firearms sign that is posted in a conspicuous manner. If they don't, then you have a right to ask them personally to leave the property. If they refuse, then you can have them arrested for criminal trespass in the third degree.

Quote:
Section 13A-7-4
Criminal trespass in the third degree.

(a) A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the third degree when he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises.

(b) Criminal trespass in the third degree is a violation.

(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, 2607.)


If you will let me know who you are, I promise I will encourage everyone I know that excercises their right to bear arms to find another doctor.

It wasn't me that made the decision that concealing a weapon is not a part of our right to bear arms. It is against the law to conceal a pistol while carrying it on your person onto property not your own or under your control.

Maybe you can help get that changed.

When I was 19 years old, I was required to take an oath to defend our Constitutions against all enemies foreign and domestic. Then I was issued an M-14.

I have never had anyone tell me they were scared to death because I was carrying that M-14 around instead of staying home and going hunting or doing something else I enjoyed doing.


Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: bamaeyedoc] #346632
06/07/12 02:29 PM
06/07/12 02:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,142
Guntersville, AL
IDOT Offline
I am Cornholio
IDOT  Offline
I am Cornholio
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,142
Guntersville, AL
Originally Posted By: bamaeyedoc
Well let's see, what would you do in this scenario if it happend to you?


I don't give a damn if you have a permit or not. NEVER come into my office or on my property with a gun unless you are a uniformed policeman or a detective with a badge showing.

Dr. B


Does that include concealed carry?


Originally Posted by Patricia Heaton
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.


Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346637
06/07/12 02:50 PM
06/07/12 02:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,958
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,958
Round ‘bout there
This may get interesting.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: bamaeyedoc] #346639
06/07/12 02:55 PM
06/07/12 02:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline OP
Booner
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Warrior River Country
Oh, by the way. Law enforcement officers don't need to be armed according to the same court that found a sheriff guilty of carrying a concealed pistol in the lawful performance of his duty.

Here's what they said:

Quote:
... In the case at bar, the defendant needed no arms for his protection, his official authority furnished him an ample shield. In this country a sheriff possesses all the powers, which pertained to his office at common law; except so far as they may have been divested by statute, or such as are incompatible with the nature of our institutions. He is the keeper of the peace within the county. He may apprehend, and commit to prison, all persons who break the peace, or attempt to break it; and may cause such persons to be bound in a recognizance to keep the peace. He may, and is bound ex officio, to pursue and take all traitors, murderers, felons, and rioters; he also hath the custody and safekeeping of the county jail; he is to defend the same against rioters, and for this purpose, as well as for taking rioters and others breaking the peace, he may call to his aid the posse comitatus, (p.622)or power of the county, and the citizens are bound to obey his summons, upon pain of fine and imprisonment. 1 Bla. Com. 343; Watson's Shff. 2.
(emphasis added)

link:
State v. Reid, 1 Ala. 612, 35 Am. Dec. 44 (1840)

So, why would you want armed law enforcement officers to come into your office?

Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: bamaeyedoc] #346640
06/07/12 02:57 PM
06/07/12 02:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 61
TN
A
Albin Offline
spike
Albin  Offline
spike
A
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 61
TN
Originally Posted By: bamaeyedoc
Well let's see, what would you do in this scenario if it happend to you?

About 6 months ago, one of my employee's son comes strolling in to my office with a Glock strapped to his hip in plain sight. He was coming by to get something from his mother. I had a waiting room of patients at the time. He's a nice enough guy but he isn't the most presentable looking fellow. Kinda disheveled and a little sloppy looking. The staff and patients were totally freaked out as was my staff who saw him. I was livid.

My office manager immediately asked him to either leave the premises or put the gun in the car and come back in. He got upset and so did his mother. He claimed he was on his way to the firing range. I mean who thinks it's ok to walk into a doctors office with a cannon strapped to your thigh?

I don't give a damn if you have a permit or not. NEVER come into my office or on my property with a gun unless you are a uniformed policeman or a detective with a badge showing.

Dr. B


http://www.primaryicare.com/doctors.html

Is this you and your office? If so, please be aware that I will do everything in my power to ensure gun owners all over the US know you hate law abiding gun owners and to never darken your door again.

Please tell us if this is your office or not. eye doc

Last edited by Albin; 06/07/12 02:58 PM.
Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346642
06/07/12 03:09 PM
06/07/12 03:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,958
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,958
Round ‘bout there
So, you guys are going to tear down and destroy a fellow hunter and American because he used common sense in a situation where his staff and customers were scared and asked a guy to leave?

I'll bet if anyone's wife, daughter or mother were sitting in that waiting room and told you about a skeezy-looking guy and how they were legitimately scared, not a damn one of you would say "Well, the Constitution gives him the right to do that whether you were scared or not, so get over it!"


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: Clem] #346644
06/07/12 03:14 PM
06/07/12 03:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline OP
Booner
49er  Offline OP
Booner
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Warrior River Country
As ususal, that's not what I'm saying at all. That's why I chose to put you on ignore.

This is important, so I looked to see what you posted.

We're not tearing the doc down for exercising his property rights. We just want to know ahead of time so we can send our families to a doctor who doesn't forbid them from having their own weapons in case some sleazy looking guy comes in to shoot the place up.

I want them to have their own protection in case that happens. And it's happening a lot lately.

Now, I'll just put you back on "ignore this member's posts" again.

Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: Clem] #346645
06/07/12 03:15 PM
06/07/12 03:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,142
Guntersville, AL
IDOT Offline
I am Cornholio
IDOT  Offline
I am Cornholio
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Posts: 25,142
Guntersville, AL
Lets all "Calm" down here.

Open carry, inside a doctor's office, is just asinine at best. I would however, like to know how he feels about concealed carry, in his office.


Originally Posted by Patricia Heaton
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.


Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: IDOT] #346647
06/07/12 03:18 PM
06/07/12 03:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline OP
Booner
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He told us in plain terms.

Read what he said again. Slowwwlllyy this time. He don't want you having a gun at all on his property.

Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346650
06/07/12 03:21 PM
06/07/12 03:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,142
Guntersville, AL
IDOT Offline
I am Cornholio
IDOT  Offline
I am Cornholio
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,142
Guntersville, AL
Originally Posted By: 49er
He told us in plain terms.

Read what he said again. Slowwwlllyy this time. He don't want you having a gun at all on his property.


Lets let him explain 1st. If he is against concealed carry, then by all means flame away.


Originally Posted by Patricia Heaton
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.


Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346651
06/07/12 03:24 PM
06/07/12 03:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 10,970
Somerville
CAM Offline
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Somerville
If I'm sitting in that office and someone walks in with a pistol strapped on that ain't in uniform, I'd be feeling a little "Under Gunned" myself laugh


"Don't let a dead deer kill ya"
Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346652
06/07/12 03:28 PM
06/07/12 03:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,542
lower shelby county
XVIII Offline
14 point
XVIII  Offline
14 point
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Posts: 7,542
lower shelby county
eyedoc is not trying to alienate or offend. he's using common sense. the same common sense that may make patients nervous that are sitting in a dr.'s waiting room if they see a 'disheveled' looking individual carrying a firearm. the same sense that says it's not common or usual for a person to be openly carrying a firearm IN A DR.'S OFFICE.

i lawfully carry concealed and have never openly carried but in general, I don't have a problem with those that exercise the right. make sure all the synapses are in brain order when you decide to bash eyedoc for exercising his right to use common sense.


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346653
06/07/12 03:28 PM
06/07/12 03:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
14 point
joshm28  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
Just out of curiosity, and off topic, does the open carry law specify "Handguns"? Could I walk around walmart with a shotgun, LOL?

Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: XVIII] #346655
06/07/12 03:39 PM
06/07/12 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,672
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
wmd  Offline
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W
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Posts: 4,672
Madison, AL
Originally Posted By: XIV
eyedoc is not trying to alienate or offend. he's using common sense. the same common sense that may make patients nervous that are sitting in a dr.'s waiting room if they see a 'disheveled' looking individual carrying a firearm. the same sense that says it's not common or usual for a person to be openly carrying a firearm IN A DR.'S OFFICE.

i lawfully carry concealed and have never openly carried but in general, I don't have a problem with those that exercise the right. make sure all the synapses are in brain order when you decide to bash eyedoc for exercising his right to use common sense.


My thoughts/questions - why is this common sense? Is it because we (the greater American populace) have been trained that guns, especially pistols, are bad and hence, people that own/carry guns, especially pistols, are bad? Is it the fear that because somebody has a gun, that they could be a criminal, even if they are not? Personally, I wish everybody, good guys and bad, that were packing would pack openly, at least then you would know where you stood and what you were up against, instead of just wondering if that disheveled person is possibly more of threat than he might appear to be a first glance.


"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: Albin] #346656
06/07/12 03:39 PM
06/07/12 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 12,018
chilton co.
trox28 Offline
on probation
trox28  Offline
on probation
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 12,018
chilton co.
Originally Posted By: Albin
Originally Posted By: bamaeyedoc
Well let's see, what would you do in this scenario if it happend to you?

About 6 months ago, one of my employee's son comes strolling in to my office with a Glock strapped to his hip in plain sight. He was coming by to get something from his mother. I had a waiting room of patients at the time. He's a nice enough guy but he isn't the most presentable looking fellow. Kinda disheveled and a little sloppy looking. The staff and patients were totally freaked out as was my staff who saw him. I was livid.

My office manager immediately asked him to either leave the premises or put the gun in the car and come back in. He got upset and so did his mother. He claimed he was on his way to the firing range. I mean who thinks it's ok to walk into a doctors office with a cannon strapped to your thigh?

I don't give a damn if you have a permit or not. NEVER come into my office or on my property with a gun unless you are a uniformed policeman or a detective with a badge showing.

Dr. B


http://www.primaryicare.com/doctors.html

Is this you and your office? If so, please be aware that I will do everything in my power to ensure gun owners all over the US know you hate law abiding gun owners and to never darken your door again.

Please tell us if this is your office or not. eye doc

Re: Gun Rights Battle Here at Home [Re: 49er] #346657
06/07/12 03:42 PM
06/07/12 03:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,872
shelby county
B
buzzard Offline
14 point
buzzard  Offline
14 point
B
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,872
shelby county
Open carry = the first person the bad guy is gonna go after.
Open carry is made for the hunting property and away from people. IMO

Have some sense and hide it.


"Hell with them fellows, buzzard got to eat same as a worm"
Josey Wales

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