The most interesting one I saw was one holdout landowner in the middle of a huge tract. He had I believe 10 acres completely encircled by high fence. He was obviously upset. He won in the local courts but lost when the large landowner appealed.

If it is related to the article that I read, the 10 acre landowner was quoted in the court documents as saying, that with the intensive management efforts around it, it was an excellent place to hunt for he and his whole family but once the fence was put up,they could no longer use dogs to hunt on his property. I'm betting that they (being the 10 acre landowner and his family) wandered off the 10 acres more than just a few times and it kinda explains why they put up the fence around him.

You can’t even man drive 10 acres. Absolutely no way you could dog hunt it.

I think it’d be cool to be able to hunt other species as well like red stag…..After seeing what hunting has become “outside of the fence” and getting to track for quite a few different high fence operations…..I’ve lost that feeling of being inside of a fence mattering much….It doesn’t change how deer behave, it just changes what the neighbors can shoot.....One of the places I go is roughly 1000 acres.....One of the guys that hunt it said they kill bucks that they have never seen on camera before.....They've also had bucks that they've only ever seen once.

No kidding ! Who cares if neighbors kill big buck . Proud for them. Just damn deer .
This is how disease spread . God didn’t intend for wild animals to be penned up.

There's no changing the stigma around it being high fence because it will never be the same as hunting free-range deer. But I do tend to agree, if you fence in enough property, at some point those deer don't really know they're fenced in. There are multiple places in Texas that are good examples

Lot of those TX ranches play a game with the fence heights so that their deer can still be eligible for B&C entry. 3 sides game-proof "high fence", one side 60 or 72" "low fence". Typically, the "low fence" side runs along a major highway, developed area, or something that creates a natural border that deer dont want to cross or enter anyway.

As a landowner I get the attraction, as a hunter I have no interest.

I kill the ones in a small pen within the high fence. Ain't got time for that. Show up. Shoot. Go home

Not a fan of high fences and it has nothing to do with the deer.

Are we that worried about what neighbors shoot legally?

If I spent seven or eight figures to buy hunting land I would be......

Yep. Guy spends a couple million on a good tract in a good area, spends a couple hundred grand a year in improvements, habitat modifications, etc, and can’t grow a deer past 3 years old because he’s doing all the work for the neighbors with 20 acres around him to pull the trigger. Is what it is. Right or wrong, I don’t blame them one bit and can understand it.

Are you telling me that a guy with 20 acres can really impact someone with 1000 plus acres and millions of dollars?

If so, the guy with the millions must be dumb AF. Go offer the owner cash that he can’t refuse. Outspend him, out bait him. It doesn’t require a fence.

It doesn’t have to be as much as 20 acres.
An outlaw with one acre, a booger light and a pile of corn can wreak havoc.

Also, some land can’t be bought. Just doesn’t work that way.

A guy with 20 acres can wreck the crap out of 1000 acres easily.

Absolutely. I’ve seen small land owners kill more bucks in a weekend than larger landowners will in an entire season, and they do it every weekend they can. It’s kind of like the poor getting free benefits at the expense of the wealthy. Not much different. They’re reaping the benefits of someone else’s hard labor. Now, in a lot of cases it’s perfectly legal, and they’re taking deer according to the law and regulations, but it’s highly frustrating to the guy or guys producing the deer. Another scenario I see often is one group of hunters trying to produce a certain age class of deer and their neighbors content on killing every deer they see one year younger. You’ll get to the point that one is killing 85-90% of the age class just under what the other wants. And yes, it’s very easy to do. People think killing deer is difficult. It’s not at all. With todays technology a group of hunters can effectively kill an entire age class of their choosing every season. Then the other gets frustrated and either sells, drops the place or fences it in to achieve their objectives.

Let me rephrase, unless the 20 acre hunters are outlaws there is no way they can really put a dent in 1000 acre landowners herd.

Especially someone with 100k a year to spend? Cmon man.

Again, you guys act like you’ve found the magic bullet. A corn pile. Better habitat? Check. Less pressure? Check.

If I have 100k a year to spend on pine goats and have to build a fence over 20 acres then I need new hired help…

If I had the money and a few more acres I would high fence for sure. To add to the discussion of a how a small tract can hurt; several years ago a family that joined my place had a smallish tract (47acres) they killed every deer they saw. Any given weekend afternoon I would see a truck with at least 2 in the cab and 3 more in the bed. Every single weekend afternoon I would at least 1 shot. At the end of one particular season I asked one of the guys if they had killed much and said something like 25ish small bucks, a couple 8pts and a dozen or so does. They only hunted it like that for maybe 10 years until someone passed away and now the guy that has it doesn’t let everyone hunt there. But in that 10 year period they significantly affected the hunting on my place and at least one more that joined it. It was crazy.

You’re basing this opinion on the assumption that deer won’t travel if you provide all their needs. Well, they do, and a lot as a matter of fact. It’s also not necessarily he impact one 20 acre landowner has. It’s the cumulative affect of multiple neighbors. 1000 acres in nothing when managing for deer. You are totally at the mercy of your neighbors. You can’t manage 1000 acres with neighbors who aren’t on the same page. All these so called whitetail habitat experts who are pushing these ideas on the masses with their small land management practices are very deceiving. It works if you have your neighbors help. If you don’t, there’s nothing you can do to keep deer on your place without visiting other properties, except a fence.

Happening all over Alabama on a much more regular basis than most people realize. In Alabama, if you're actively managing for mature bucks (4 yrs and older), a good rule of thumb is that you should be able to harvest 3-5 bucks per year off 1000 acres depending on the quality of your property and what your neighbors are doing. Basically 1 buck per 200-300 acres, once again depending on land quality and location. Bad neighbors, that 3-5 drops to 0-1 or 0-2. Great neighbors, large landowners all around, all on the same program, real good quality land, letting all bucks younger than 4 walk, you might be able to harvest 6-8/yr or even more, without hurting it, in an established program. So yes, a single 20 acre landowner with 3 sons, all of which can kill 3 bucks each (12 in total per year legally) and unlimited does can absolutely ruin any attempt at managing a 1000 acre property. Or, if it was already being well managed, the 20 acre landowner that moves in and starts shooting any buck they see, can ruin years of management efforts in just a few seasons. 12 bucks a year off the 20 acres will be well in excess of what the guy managing the 1000 acres will harvest/yr and none of the bucks killed on the 20 will grow up, live/stay on, or even spend 10% of their time on that 20 acres. But when they walk across that 20 acre piece, and they will walk across it many times a year and during the season, they'll get whacked. And Matt's right. Small property management, 1000 acres or less, has zero chance of success without the surrounding neighbors being on the same page and working together, or in a best case scenario for the deer manager, not hunting their properties at all.