"God will take anyone just as they are and no one needs to worry about how they will live after they repent."

Wanted to jump in the convo real quick. I think is Irish is spot on here. For everyone on the thread….question for yall.

Part of what Irish said and has been touched on in this thread a little. He said if you game the system, you aren’t winning- you are only hurting yourself….

What exactly are we hurting? Our testimony? Or relationship with the Lord? Our eternal security? We know our relationship with the Lord goes hand in hand with our eternal security. We know that grace abounds, but where sin exists, there is death. Take Romans 6:23 for example- there are a plethora of other verses that touch on sin and death going hand in hand.

I think we live in a world where people try to get as close to the fire without being burned until one day they cross that line. That’s how grace and judgement work. When you try to see how far you can push grace, you are playing with fire. We don’t need to forget that we serve a God of grace and judgment.

Ahhh I see how you could get to that conclusion now. I THINK what bill was saying is… someone shouldn’t be worried about not being able to stop sinning after salvation. We don’t want people that want to be saved, not getting saved because they think there’s no way I can live a perfect life after salvation. He was saying we confuse them a lot of times. I don’t think he was saying he believes people can live the way they want after salvation.

A person doesn't know how to live like a Christian before they come to Christ and need not worry about how they will get it all right before they recognize their need for a savior. A person isn't required to have it all figured out before or immediately after accepting Christ. That's what scripture and the Holy Spirit are for.

Jwalker , I'm not trying to steal your attention so I'll let this be my last reply in this thread but adding ANYTHING to the Gospel is a very dangerous thing .

These discussions anger me

I think most of the confusion is the definition of the words "Repentance" and "Lordship".

Jesus Himself clearly connected repentance and forgiveness in Luke 24 vs 46-47 "He told them ' This is what is written. The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" Yes, repentance and it's connection with forgiveness are in scripture. The issue that I see is with the definition of repentance. Both by those who preach "works" and those who refute "works" preaching It's synonymous with with faith, not separate from it. It's also something we continue in after conversion, confessing our sin to God and turning from it. We have already been washed clean but we are changing direction and humbling ourselves. This absolutely does not mean we are sinless, and it also does not mean we have to "fix ourselves" before coming to Him in faith. Repentance is not a work of man, but a work of God, and a change of heart and direction., and something that is necessary for conversion.

Concerning "Lordship", I agree that there are those who's pendulum swings so far that they miss it with this topic as well. But that pendulum swings both ways. When we come to Christ we absolutely make Him Lord of our lives. He is King, Boss, in charge, etc. NO ONE should have more authority than God in our lives, even when we don't live it out that way. Paul said in Romans 10 vs 9-11 "If you confess with your mouth ' Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, ' Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame"

Why would Paul say this ? If someone has such a vanilla faith that they cannot speak Jesus as Lord, then do they have faith ? And no, it's not a ritual, the sinners prayer, or a chant or mantra that is recited that saves. It's FAITH. But that faith will exalt Christ and put Him in His proper place. And this absolutely does not mean that we are perfect by making Jesus Lord. It just means we recognize and try to live as if He is. Because He is.

Also, Paul wrote in Philippians 2 vs. 10 -11 " that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.:"

Again, I think we are defining the terms differently. Is Lordship a pre-requisite to salvation ? I don't think it's possible to comprehend the Omniscient God we serve without the Holy Spirit. But should we bend the knee is submission during conversion ? Absolutely. It's call faith. Trusting Him above all other. Putting Him in His proper place, etc.

Billy didn't preach the doctrines of repentance and lordship in a legalistic and dogmatic way. at least that I've ever hear and I've listened to him a good bit.

But I will say this, claiming him as a false teacher is something folks should be careful about doing. And that applies to all who proclaim the Gospel. Because when we do that , we can become the very people we are talking about.

Pleaseshow me one thing ive added to the bible. Then show me where what you are saying is in the bible. And yes a perso does have some idea how to luve luke a christian when they get saved. They have christians living a christuan life right in front of them, they have Jesuss example, they have a bible full of instructions. I know you want so bad to be right, youre just not

Can you point to where on the doll it has hurt you?



They anger me because they take up valuable space where we could be talking about goofy chit!

[/quote]

Pleaseshow me one thing ive added to the bible. Then show me where what you are saying is in the bible. And yes a perso does have some idea how to luve luke a christian when they get saved. They have christians living a christuan life right in front of them, they have Jesuss example, they have a bible full of instructions. I know you want so bad to be right, youre just not
[/quote]


No thanks. I don't do well with sarcastic condescension without returning it 10 fold and I know you don't deal well with those who disagree with you. I've made 2 post in this thread and I'm not worried about being right. Scripture is clear on the Gospel and how to be saved and I'm not going to debate something that the Bible says is so simple even a child can understand it. Nothing more is required to be saved than to recognize our need for a savior, believe Christ lived a perfect life and was crucified and resurrected for the remission of our sins and that it is the only way to God. Anything more than that is legalism and possibly heresy.

You coulda just said no I'm an asshole

amen again bill

Pleaseshow me one thing ive added to the bible. Then show me where what you are saying is in the bible. And yes a perso does have some idea how to luve luke a christian when they get saved. They have christians living a christuan life right in front of them, they have Jesuss example, they have a bible full of instructions. I know you want so bad to be right, youre just not
[/quote]


No thanks. I don't do well with sarcastic condescension without returning it 10 fold and I know you don't deal well with those who disagree with you. I've made 2 post in this thread and I'm not worried about being right. Scripture is clear on the Gospel and how to be saved and I'm not going to debate something that the Bible says is so simple even a child can understand it. Nothing more is required to be saved than to recognize our need for a savior, believe Christ lived a perfect life and was crucified and resurrected for the remission of our sins and that it is the only way to God. Anything more than that is legalism and possibly heresy. [/quote]





When Jesus told everyone he healed and saved, what did he say? "Go and sin no more". He certainly did not say "dont worry about how you live from here on out, ive got it covered.". So Bill, i reckon Jesus says your theory is wrong himself. What about working out your own salvation with fear and trembling? That sure sounds alot different than go on like your going, youll be fine.

And i think its pretty amuzing you say quotes from tha bible are possible herresy. But you cant show me in the bible where it says you need not worry about how you live after your saved. Democrats call quots out of the constitution domestic terrorism, this sounds alot ike that logic.

bpi did you look up Billy's interview with Robert Shuler. what he said in that interview was complete herasy and taught universalism. he was very ecumenical with rome. does that not concern you? he also reccomended folks go to vincent Norman peals church who was a high level freemason and was the joel Osteen of his day. those things cause me to have great discernment to me concerning billy graham

How about "If you love me, youll keep my commandments" explain that one. Check out what God said was a "reasonable service". That one there sure dont sound like live how you want to, you have grace.

How do we keep his commandments?

We was doing good and yall started aurguing. Group hug right now We was going down 75 yesterday and there was a Big bill board with the verse about every knee shall bow and every tongue shalll confess. Right under it said even democrats I thought that was funny.

He looks at our hearts. It was already proven way before that scripture was written that no one could do it. But a saved person should give their life to God. That means submit to him. That means we surrender our free will and live according to the spirit, not the flesh. Wont ever be perfect, some wont be too good at it at all. But our heart should be pointing us to God, it should be our hearts desire to please God. Theres all kinds of scripture to prove all this, and you dont have to leave any scripture out to believe it. Nothing has to be twisted or taken out of context to make it work. And i understand grace completely. My life has been a picture of it.

It seems that you do understand God’s Grace. That’s why I can’t figure out why you disagree with what Bill said. He wasn’t saying live like you want after salvation. He was saying the sanctification part comes after salvation. Learning how to not sin. Learning how to be led by the spirit. Learning how to be full of the spirit. Learning to live in God’s grace when we do sin, and not in shame and regret. All that comes after salvation. I think you are saying that our heart is in the right spot and we don’t want to sin but we don’t know how to not sin? I really think yall are saying the same thing, just wording it differently

I've seen it. But not in it's entirety. Just the clip that caused some concern. And if that's the context he meant it in, it is concerning. In regards to the hundreds, if not thousands of crusades he's done, I've heard nothing out of line.

What concerns me here more than even the topics we are discussing is how everyone gets so angry about these things ? We are only talking it out. As I've said before, I don't want to sound dogmatic or legalistic. I thank you for having an understanding tone and being reasonable. We should all do the same.