We are using the BXR Rapid Expansion 155 GR. My problem is that several of our fields are surrounded by pretty thick pines, and if I don’t have blood or a dog, it’s like finding a needle in a haystack. Maybe we have just had bad luck so far, but four hits without a drop of blood made me want to ask the question to you guys. And one of the hits was a lung shot.

I think your bullets may be a problem. 180 grain winxhester soft points (not xp) or 160 grain power max will absolutely tear big holes in deer. Ive seen about 10 deer shot with these rounds and they have all been huge exit holes. I have even thought of switching to 150 gr to reduce meat damage.

Also how do you know you had 4 hits without a drop of blood?

Not to be a punk, but can they handle a gun at that age? Ive got big kids and I didnt let them shoot at a deer until they were 10/11. My older switched to a 270 at 12 and shot at his first and killed it. t Most of my thinking was they needed to be able to shoot free handed standing or sitting (which you dont have to agree with) but I didnt think they could make a clean kill without that ability. And I was proven right last year with my younger son. He was 10 and couldnt get the job done. But I also dont allow shooting sticks and make them load and unload their guns.

Why would you handicap an inexperienced hunter/shooter by not allowing shooting sticks. Not to be a punk but that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard….

Stay off that shoulder. Double lung deer bleed.

I probably shouldnt write this because I know some of it will be against aldeer ways, but screw it...

My family and now myself have managed thousands of acres and dozens of hunters for over 75 years. So, I have been around hunters of all skill levels.

I (myself) dont hunt in controlled conditions much or shoot many deer that aren't moving through timber. No shooting houses and rarely any blinds. In theory, kids should be able to handle a gun and use trees, knees, prone position, etc or they shouldnt hunt. We have had a 16 yr old rule for turkey and deer on our property going back 70 years. Kids used to (me included) hone skills on small game before ever sniffing a deer or turkey season. Lately I lifted the 16 yr old rule because of all the youth season additions and frankly nobody was small game hunting anyway. In many ways I'd like to go back to the old rule. But, some kids (like my son) were 6'2" at 14 and better shots than some of our adult hunters. My 11 year old has shot both his deer this year free handed at 75 and 85 yards. They both dropped in their tracks.

Ive always considered shooting houses a city boy thing and unless a shot is over 300 yards I feel the same about the shooting sticks. IMO kids dont need to be shooting distances that require sticks. If they do require them it is because they are too weak to hold up a gun, so they arent old enough yet.

BTW, I still dont allow kids under 16 to hunt during regular seasons or by themselves. It pisses some people off, but none of those people have been good hunters. That has been a pretty common theme. Dads who can shoot teach their kids to shoot. Dads that are terrible shots and wound deer tend to have kids that do the same. And... kids that start too early end up wounding deer. My youngest son included (although I still blame that pea-shooting 243 :))

My goal is not to control everything so my kids kill. My goal is to teach them how to become woodsmen, shooters, and hunters. That is why I take them to go hunt public land instead of our own. I have deer on my camera every day that walk into foodplots. But that isnt really hunting, it is just shooting deer (which we may take advantage of after they know a little more about hunting).

Why would you handicap an inexperienced hunter/shooter by not allowing shooting sticks. Not to be a punk but that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard….

They are 9, 7, and 6.

It's kind of counterintuitive but you may want to step up the caliber for them. If they have questionable shot placement combined with a lower energy caliber, you're asking for issues. Potentially a tripod or shoulder pad could allow them to use a heavier gun without feeling the full kick and weight during aiming?

With lower energy rifles in my experience you need to be absolutely on target with shot placement - in other words people who use them need to be good shots... not pulling... not flinching... etc.

With something like a 7mm mag, you hit anywhere in the vitals and the deer is going about 30-40 yards tops, and often just falls on the spot.

For real. I’ve got 40+ years in the books and I still use shooting sticks.
The short Primos trigger stick is the ticket for ground sitting.