Ideal for deer but not farming or timber. Same as mid west I guess. Way more food and open fields than cover. We seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum since we are farming timber mostly.

Keep in mind that “food” isnt just an ag field or something of that nature……We can have the same exact burn unit and whether we continually burn it in the dormant season or whether we burn it during the growing season is going to impact the structure of the plant community. That’s going to be a big factor in determining how much is “grass” and how much is “broadleaf”………Broadleaf cover is only temporary and also dependent on the grazing pressure. In other words, if broadleafs begin to be overutilized then cover decreases with it….No so with grass. Also keep in mind that anytime we strike a match we are temporarily removing cover and converting it to food until it grows back up. Cover removed in July or August for instance may not be “cover” again for a full year. I’m just using these examples to illustrate how there is more to food/cover than just stands of brush and fields.

I think that a lot of it is due to “stress”……I think a whole lot more would reach that score and beyond if they weren’t as stressed early on in life……How many bucks are born late and spend their youth trying to be the main breeders???......That has to contribute greatly to limiting their potential as an older buck.

That makes sense to me. I don’t think that an 8pt or better rule practiced on a large scale would help that though. I believe it would compound the problem.

Going back to the hunting club I have experience with, it maybe also be the case that the bucks we are passing on are older than 3 and we are mistakingly saying they are younger. The cementum aging pretty much lines up with most of our age guesswork though. I know it’s not an exact science.

The ”8 point rule” is something you gotta look at on a sliding scale of management. I believe it was blumsden that mentioned how in the beginning QDMA was about protecting the yearlings and some 2 ½ year olds…..that kinda thing. THAT kind of thinking is what took the place of the 8 pt or better clubs originally as the better way……Is 8 pt+ a better way than 4 year old plus???.......No, likely not…….Is it better than yearlings and 2 ½ year old age management……Yes, probably so……The same way that 125 plus is likely better for age structure than 4 year old plus …….It’s just like we previously said…..Which way is green lighting a higher percentage of the bucks?? There’s a lot more that wont be 8 pointers than ones that wont be 2 ½ years old.

There’s a sliding scale of less to more strict management either way. Score just really simplifies it and would likely promote better herd dynamics when matching apples to apples along that scale. Ideally we would want folks who are doing the age thing to switch to doing some kind of rack score instead…I think something like 110 or 130 or whatever you decide on would be the best way.....but if some folks went with 8 pt or better it wouldnt be the end of the world....it would be better than shooting ALL 3 year olds and some 2's…In the past this score based shooting is what we had, it was just called “big buck hunting” and we got convinced that the “real trophies” were the ones that made it to 3 or 4 years old……

Personally, I think the best way to improve the age structure and just the over all hunting scenario over the entire Alabama herd would be to decrease the bay limit to 1 buck and 1 doe per season.

Lease prices over all would probably drop due to people not wanting to spend the money for 1 buck. Plus the guy killing 2 spikes and a 4pt every year would either stop or at least be an outlaw.

What’s yalls thoughts on that?

As long as you enjoy it . Some people got it where their goals will never be met. Imo it better to manage for what you got not for what you want.

Our club consists of me and my son. Its thick where we hunt and you dont have 5 minutes to study a deer before shooting him. You literally have a few seconds to make a decision. We try to look at main beam length and mass when we cant see the body very well. So we shoot what we want, sometimes we make mistakes. Oh well. Main thing is we have fun. After all, that's why we hunt.

you couldnt do that state wide . hell i have to put ever thing in a garden behind a electric fence now .

Pulling the trigger. They don't have a chance to reach maturity. For a buck in this state to reach 5 or 6+ in age is pure luck.

Here is the thing though......


I will guarantee you that in a single 5 year window..... I have bigger deer on my property by not shooting them than any QDMA program EVER produced in that same 5 years.

GUARANTEE IT.

All you really have to do is apply common sense. I know that really hurt some feelings but you can't kill your deer and have more deer... bucks or does. If you shoot the does you have less bucks. Less bucks... less chance one of them will get big.

It just doesn't work. Sorry.

Before anyone responds, the respondents needs to be clear on YOUR opinion on how/what/when are QDMA's management practices according to YOU? YOU may have it all wrong on what you think is QDM marketed by the QDMA.

QDMA understands that every piece of land is different... and every piece of land is hunted differently. Deer harvest is not the only focus of QDMA. It's also land mgmt or habitat mgmt as well. I know that used to, "Killers" were pointing at QDM as an excuse to shoot a ton of does. "We gotta kill does!!" QDMA's response to that is to keep your carrying capacity within acceptability. If you NEED to shoot does, then shoot does. If you don't need to, then don't. And the QDMA gave hunters the tools to make that judgement. You may need to shoot does... OR, YOU MAY NOT have to harvest any!!!

Strive for a balanced age ratio and strive for an acceptable sex ratio. If your land is hardly hunted and VERY low pressure, if you want to shoot a 2.5 yr old (wouldn't know why you'd want to) buck, then shoot it. More than anything, QDM requires a discipline and it sometimes becomes hard work. QDM is about restraint AND a willingness to put in some work.

QDM works.

And I'll say this... QDMA supported, IF.... IF you need to shoot does, then shoot them. IF you do not (by sensible data collection and observation) need to shoot does, then do NOT!!! It's unfair to be blaming the QDMA in the over-killing of does. That was overzealous hunters wanting an excuse to pull the trigger!!!

The QDMA was blamed for a lot they were not responsible for at all. The wrong application of QDMA principles by unqualified overzealous deer biologist wannabees caused a lot of the problem.

Humm….When this all came about, hunters had to be convinced to shoot does because back then shooting does was considered a sin. State officials were the ones I saw and heard doing the convincing. So, I guess, the State officials were the unqualified overzealous deer biologist wannabes?

Oh snap............

The QDMA did not support the unregulated killing of does. Certainly, there was a time when, yes, there were probably too many does because everybody thought the more deer, the better. At some point, biologists realized that too many deer, esp does, is not good. QDMA supports limiting your deer herd to its carry capacity. Regarding sex ratio... there are reasons why the rut carries into early spring and the bad consequences of late-born fawns, stressing the does and bucks stretching out their rut.

QDMA philosophy: (And with a few tweaks, Trophy Deer Mgmt. But TDM is a whole different ballgame as far as restraint and disciplne.)
A healthy sex & age ration.
A deer herd at carrying capacity of land.
Learn how to habitat improve.
And they give you all the tools to perform the aforementioned.

It takes discipline, unselfishness and dedication to practice QDM. IF you or your fellow hunters that hunt the land are selfish and undisciplined, it will not work and it's going to fail.

In the last 20 years, I've hunted managed land where the harvest of 3.5 yr old bucks and younger is a no-no (4.5 is our min and age is decided on jawbone) and the harvest of does is regulated. If we increase the carrying cap, then we limit doe harvest. I will NEVER go back to relaxed buck harvest rules or even 8 pt or better. We shoot bucks based off age and we'd rather kill a 5 yr old 6 pt than a 2.5 yr old 8 or 10 pt. If you have trigger-happy members, you can hang it up.

Considering I’ve been on the inside I can say with confidence, yes, there are state officials who have absolutely no business assisting anyone managing deer. There are others who are more than qualified. I can also say confidently a lot of the problem with over-harvest was due to misapplication of solid management principles by armchair biologist who read an article in QDMA and tried to implement it on their piece of ground, with no guidance from a biologist.

I’ve always erred on the side of caution with doe harvest. The target number to remove each year is entirely dependent on the objectives of the hunters. Some will need to remove more, some less, all dependent on what they are trying to achieve.

Antlerfluke ,,,, how old are you ?

Matt , I disagree . QDMA they were pushing the hell out of killing does . How else was they gonna get a 1:1 or 1:2 ratio back then .

All they preached , healthy herd , short rut . Yeah how's that working out.

State still preaching the same bs ever time the come up with another dumb a$$ idea .

Game check , baiting and extended season was and is stupid