People will tell you all day, straight up, that God is all powerful, but then they turn around and don't really believe what just came out of their own mouths.

It is a dichotomy that is common in various Christian beliefs. Christians will say that God can do anything, but then they won't truly believe it. Peter walking on the water is a classic example of that. We as Christians generally don't have enough faith to realize all that God has to give us.

God says to come to Him as a child. I think what He means by that is to come to Him with an open mind, a sense of wonder, and faith untainted by worldly things.

The closer I get to God the more I realize that the vast majority of us (Including me) are really closet Agnostics, because if we truly believed and had faith in God our lives would be much different than they are today.

I agree Irish. Think of Elijah in the Bible...he outran Ahab's horses and chariot for miles.....only to be told immediately that Ahab would kill him....what does he do? Go to a stream to die....a miracle high to a valley low....I think that is why God has so much compassion for us in the midst of our emotions. We are fallible even after experiencing a mighty move of God. I think that is why Christ came to earth to experience emotions like we do. When the Bible says that "surely He hath born our grief and carried our sorrows" or that "He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief". He knows how we feel when we say I feel x or y....that is what makes Him. I read this once "When your heart hurts, you run to the ONE who created your heart".

Faith has to have a good memory...

I haven’t read many of these replies but did read Irish and Dubie.

Agree with what you guys are saying. I struggle with increasing my faith but am reminded it’s a progressive sanctification and journey. And, that we can all fail at any given time. The Bible is full of examples of this.

But, to get back to the issues raised above, one of my all time favorite passages is the cry/prayer of the father of a sick and demon possessed boy in Mark 9…a prayer/cry of mine every day…”I believe, help my unbelief!” And we see that tiny little mustard seed of faith was enough for Jesus to work. That’s encouraging to me.

Haven't got time to sift through seven pages, so what I mention might be redundant. If so, I'm sorry. Speaking in tongues is clearly defined in Acts 2:1-8. On the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit fell upon the apostles (aka - Holy Spirit baptism) and they were able to speak in tongues (verse 4). Going to verses 6-7 we see what the manifested gift allowed them to do - they were able to communicate with people in languages they had not learned. Since the apostles hadn't studied those languages but were able to speak them, it was miraculous.

There were at least three purposes for speaking in tongues during the first Century time period - and all of them are illustrated in this passage. First, it would create curiosity among people in a crowd like was at Pentecost and the gospel could then be preached to them. Second, the fact that people could perform these signs would verify their message as being "from God" (see Mark 16:20). Third, it was simply for the purpose of communication. There were people from at least 13-15 locations present... and many of them couldn't understand Koine Greek, the common language spoken in Palestine at the time. The ability to speak in tongues would have been very helpful in spreading the gospel - especially for someone only fluent in one language during this time.

A few other things about tongues. Some believe tongues are a "special language to God"... but the New Testament doesn't support the idea. Nowhere does the NT claim that people who speak in tongues are "super spiritual" or "communicating with God". In fact, the latter is clearly denied by what happened in Acts 2. A second thing is that tongue speaking is some kind of "gibberish" that people cannot understand. Again, the example of Acts 2 refutes this - a "tongue" is nothing more than a known language. If someone is speaking language that no one on earth can understand, that's not a tongue - that's gibberish. Next, many believe speaking in tongues is present today. Though God still is in the "miracle business", He doesn't endow people with these supernatural spiritual gifts today as they were in the first Century time period. 1 Corinthians 13:1ff and Ephesians 4:11ff both indicate there would come a time when the church would be "mature" - and those gifts would no longer be needed. IF this was still a gift given to people today directly from God, then we should especially see it in mission efforts - for instance when an English-speaking Christian goes on a mission trip and has to have an interpreter. This gift would "cut out" any need for interpreters - but never have I seen or heard about this in our time. Like with all the other supernatural spiritual gifts, they were used for a certain time period but God doesn't chose to use them today. Also, according to 1 Corinthians 14:26ff, the gift of tongues was regulated in Christian assemblies. In a Christian gathering, prophets could speak - these would be people who had direct messages from God who evidently spoke in the native language. In the Corinthian church, they would speak in the language prominently spoken in that area. However, even if one possessed the gift of speaking in tongues, Paul limited him from speaking IF there was no one who could interpret the message (another spiritual gift). That would be akin today to having an English-speaking worship assembly today and someone who only speaks Chinese delivers the message. Unless there's someone who can interpret, the message couldn't be understood.

Last, let me mention one thing I saw in the few posts I read. This has NOTHING to do with the power of God. God still possesses the power to endow people to do things like this IF HE SO DESIRES - He's the same God today as He was in NT times. The question is DOES GOD CHOOSE TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE THIS WAY TODAY? To claim that tongue speaking is no longer occurring doesn't make Christians "closet Agnostics" - it means we read God's word and realize that in a limited time period, God used these methods for the spread of the gospel.

Someone on here told me i was "delusional" because i have a relationship with God. Some people dont believe there is such a thing. You gotta tear out half the Bible and throw it away for that to be true. I reckon my life is just a giant series of accidents and coincedences, God has nothing to do with it. I thank the Lord my God dont live in a box that small.

I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. Chills on that account Booger. God is good!

That’s awesome Booger. God Bless y’all!

Tongues in the scripture is very simple. It is a language nothing more nothing less. In the scripture the gift of tongues was the ability to speak in languages they didn't know in order to spread the gospel. There was no time to learn other languages and God gave the ability to speak in langues or tongues to spread the gospel. They were real languages that men understood. The nonsense within the pentecostal-holiness-church of god is unbiiblical and wicked. It is not from God and in many cases I believe is demonic. As a lost young person i visited some of those churches so now knowing the scripture its easy for me to look back and see the wickedness of it.
Acts 2:5-7
King James Version
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

1 Corinthians 14 deals in depth with tongues and finishes by saying that if there is no one to interpret then let them keep silence. You can't interpret the nonsense that happens in these false churches because its not a real language, its just jibber jabber.
1 Corinthians 14:27-28

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

I'll finish by saying this, all churches that I know that practice what is called tongues today believe in a works salvation. Many believe if you can't speak in tongues that you aren't saved. They don't believe in eternal security where you believe on The Lord Jesus Christ and are saved and sealed until the day of redemption. Your salvation rests on your works and how well you live. Any time a churuch or person is wrong about salvation other strange doctrines normally follow. Speaking in tongues as defined by most today follows those who have a false view of salvation.

Well I see that y’all have carried in in a mostly civil matter so far and that is good. Now I got a question for you . A snake talked in Genesis A donkey in numbers. What will be the last creature made by God yet to speak?

Your handle makes sense, now.









I’m kidding. My maternal grandmother was a lifelong member an Assembly of God church.
I’ve witnessed everything that y’all have discussed during services there and it was always the same two people doing it. I can still hear what they were saying to this day and it always sounded similar each time.
I never really questioned the legitimacy of it, I just thought those people were really well connected to the spirit of the Lord. Interesting topic that I haven’t thought about in 25 years.

Do you have any idea what you were saying? In english, i mean? I have seen a few people speak in tongues in my life. I always wondered of they even had any idea what they were saying.

I certainly don’t doubt your sincerity or your feeling of legitimacy in your experiences. But… that’s not a biblical definition of “speaking in tongues”. There’s nothing in Scripture to suggest “tongues” is anything like what you feel. Maybe call it something else, but not “speaking in tongues”.

Can you tell me where the scripture is that discribes ecactly what speaking in tongues is supposed to sound like? I understand the Bile says on the day of pentecost, people speaking several different languages were heard as if speaking the same language. There are also accounts of speaking in tongues where the people involved spoke the same language, which if used in the same context would eliminate the need for speaking in tongues. Also said that if one speaks in tongues, an interpreter is needed, which would also seem to be different than the first discription. As far as i am aware, that was the only discription of speaking in tongues and it is apparent that discription does not cover every time it is mentioned.

I don’t understand how your belief that “tongues” is just another human language. I mean I understand that it was in acts 2 at Pentecost, but how can that be what Paul was talking about in 1Cor 14? If someone has the gift to speak in other languages without being taught those languages, why in earth would they need an interpreter? They didn’t need an interpreter for the Acts 2 account did they? No, because they spoke the languages of the people there.
If I’m in Mexico, and the Holy Spirit gives me the ability to speak Spanish without being taught, I don’t need an interpreter. See what I mean? It’s has to be talking about a language that is revealed to only the interpreter.

I mean, that’s what makes sense to me. If someone can explain why someone that speaks the language of the people the word is spoken to needs an interpreter please do.

The word tongue is used interchangeably with the word language. Its very important that you get that settled and a quick bible search will show that
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Acts 22:2

2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)

In verse 4 it said they spake with tongues and in verse 6 every man herd in their own language. Hebrews clearly shows the use of tongues in context. Its important that you understand the word tongue is referring to a language.
The example of what had happened in Acts 2 is not the only way tongues is explained in the scripture. The fact that God gave that ability in Acts 2 doesn't mean thats the way it was always done. What you see in Acts 2 would be described as a miracle. The requirements of speaking in tongues given in 1 Corinthians 14 is a guideline for how and when other languages are used in the church. This is for when you have people of other languages within a church. Based on what we see in Acts 2 and how many many people got saved, you would have had many people that spoke different languages. Paul is saying if someone speaks in an unknown tongue then there has to be an interpreter. This would not be what you saw in the miracle in Acts 2 as clearly they wouldn't need an interpreter. We have a Spanish congregation as part of our church and sometimes our English pastor speaks to them and he needs an interpreter, without one scripture forbids it as it would be useless. In 1 Corinthians verse 27 it says this- If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Its says if any man speak in an unknown tongue. If you were to use the word language instead of tongue then its very clear that if someone speaks an unknown language to that congregation that you need an interpreter to let people know whats being said. Thats so plain and clear and thats what the majority of 1 Corinthians 14 is explaining. In verse 19 Paul says Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. He finishes up by saying but in understanding be ye men, he's telling them that they need to get it together and understand this. You can't be preaching or doing things in the church in a language that people don't understand. HOW MUCH MORE CAN YOU NOT COME IN TO CHURCH SPEAKING IN JIBBER JABBER THAT ISN'T A LANGUAGE AT ALL THAT NO ONE KNOWS WHATS BEING SAID BECAUSE ITS NOT EVEN REAL!!! He ends is verse 33 saying- For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches. He's making it clear that Gods not author of confusion, he just explained how confusing it would be if people were speaking in languages that people didn't understand. God has just given them instruction on how to conduct tongues in the church and that God wasn't the author of them doing it any way outside of that. How much more confusing is what takes place in the name of tongues today??? I went to some meetings like that as a teenager it was beyond confusing and never made sense and just like what scripture said they barbarians to me as I had no idea what was going on. I never left having a better knowledge and understanding of the Word of God. Based on whats happening and how God forbade it its clear that God isn't the author of it. The reason that there is confusion about this is because people have allowed the false movement on tongues and there nonsense to cloud the clear meaning of what tongues is in the scripture which is simply a language.

Lets judge your experience according to the scripture
The bible does say that the Holy Sprit moves men. One thing is clear is that He moved men to speak and right the scriptures
2 Peter 1:20-21
King James Version
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost

The second thing we see is that God doesn't tempt men with evil. You don't have to worry about God moving you to sin or do wrong.
James 1:12-13
King James Version
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:


1 Corinthians 14:27-28
King James Version
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

When we look at these versus its clear that Holy Ghost moved Paul to write that men were not to speak in tongues within the church without an interpreter. That is as plain as it gets. "Assuming" that what you and others do is actually "tongues" then if its being done without an interpreter would put you in clear disobedience to The Word of God. You didn't say whether there was an interpreter so I assume there wasn't and in my experiences there was no interpreter. Your claim and others who do such are normally similar, they state that its some special experience where the Holy Ghost filled and moved you to speak in "tongues". You're telling me that the Holy Ghost moves you to disobey the word of God? That goes against so much bible. I can't see how anyone who knows the scripture could swallow such a lie. The Holy Ghost doesn't move men to disobey the Word he moved men to speak.
Galatians 2:18
King James Version
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
God wouldn't have moved men to write the scripture if he was going to move men to break it.

The question is what is behind this experience that causes men to disobey the clear teachings of scripture? it would be one thing for you to say I felt like it was right for me to do it. You can just be ignorant and do things wrongly. To claim there is a spirit behind it that moves you to do it is something totally different though. If the Holy Spirit doesn't move men to do such things then what is it? I believe many times its demonic, thats why its important to see the danger and wickedness of this teaching and movement. Some of the same people in this stuff are the same ones with the laughing nonsense also like what you see in the Toronto blessing which is so wicked. I hope those who are on the fence might examine the scripture and see the truth about this stuff.

spot on ghost rabbit

Ghost rabbit, i sure dont mean you any disrespect and i belong to a church that believes the way you do, but it seams like you are only mentioning the scriptures thatgo along with our beliefs. There are other scriptures where tongues are mentioned that dont exactly go along with what youre saying. Another thing the Bible says is to eat the whole book, some will be bitter, some will be sweet. We cant just pick out what goes along with what we believe and throw the other away. If were gona do that, we just as well melt down our jewelry and build us a god. I dont understand all of it either but its in there.

Feel like im more confused now than ever..