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Velvet
by Turkey_neck. 05/04/24 09:13 AM
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: Duck Engr]
#3910883
05/15/23 08:05 PM
05/15/23 08:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 848
Land of dixie
Rockhound
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 848
Land of dixie
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I've never seen more suicidal turkeys than I have this year in tennessee. I like it. Most of the ones griping are the ones who shoot winter flocked birds over a corn pile. Lawrence County has had absolutely stellar hatches the last 3 years. I hope it continues. The delay won't help in areas with even a decent population, it will help in those pockets with a couple male birds, and a dozen hens, where both male birds traditionally get killed the first day of season or juvenile and there isn't another male around for several miles. That's a very real scenario in alot of places. I wonder if the suicidal turkeys can be contributed to flocks being broken up and hens headed to nest before they’ve been messed with for 2 weeks. My dad got on me for years hunting the turkeys while they’re still in flocks. Said all I was doing was boogering them up for when the hens leave for the nest and “they’re ready to be killed”. As I’ve aged I’ve seen some wisdom in that. It absolutely can be attributed to that, that's what I was getting to on that point.
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: CNC]
#3910884
05/15/23 08:08 PM
05/15/23 08:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
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Maybe
But so far it hasn’t done anything in Wayne.
Still very very few turkeys County wide. Pockets yes but as many pockets with nothing I guess it would just depend on how high your hunter density and low your turkey population…….Once it reached a certain level it would take a lot more than just delaying the season by a couple weeks to create change. If you have 10 gobblers and a 1000 hunters after them then the season change is a moot point……If you have 50 gobblers and a 1000 hunters its still probably a moot point………But keep increasing that number and at some point you’ll cross that threshold where different outcomes begin to occur. To expand on that a little further……..Like I said, if you keep increasing the number of gobblers you’ll eventually reach a threshold where outcomes change and the two week delay does make a difference……Lets say that when we reach 300 gobblers and 1000 hunters then we reach a point where the two week delay is no longer a moot point and it saves enough of those gobblers that the hens efficiently get bred before the April 25 incubation initiation….. The problem here though is that there is a small sweet spot for this solution……If we keep increasing the number of gobblers then we eventually cross another threshold where this is not a limiting factor to population growth and the two week delay is once again a moot point……Let’s say that when we reach 600 gobblers for our 1000 hunters…….So you have a narrow sweet spot here where this solution would actually work and when you look across the landscape there are likely only a small handful of areas the fit those parameters. Dont get hung up on the numbers I'm using but rather look at the concept I'm trying to get at
Last edited by CNC; 05/15/23 08:16 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: Duck Engr]
#3910915
05/15/23 08:52 PM
05/15/23 08:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,812
LASW
turkey247
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,812
LASW
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I've never seen more suicidal turkeys than I have this year in tennessee. I like it. Most of the ones griping are the ones who shoot winter flocked birds over a corn pile. Lawrence County has had absolutely stellar hatches the last 3 years. I hope it continues. The delay won't help in areas with even a decent population, it will help in those pockets with a couple male birds, and a dozen hens, where both male birds traditionally get killed the first day of season or juvenile and there isn't another male around for several miles. That's a very real scenario in alot of places. I wonder if the suicidal turkeys can be contributed to flocks being broken up and hens headed to nest before they’ve been messed with for 2 weeks. My dad got on me for years hunting the turkeys while they’re still in flocks. Said all I was doing was boogering them up for when the hens leave for the nest and “they’re ready to be killed”. As I’ve aged I’ve seen some wisdom in that. And that happens about mid February around my forty, maybe late February. I don’t really care when it happens in TN to be honest.
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: Rockhound]
#3911007
05/16/23 07:18 AM
05/16/23 07:18 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,110
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,110
Sylacauga, AL
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That was Dr Craig Harper making mention of a study between several WMA’s where season opener as normal and pushed back two weeks. Made no difference in harvest, nest initiation, hatching or poult survival. Like I said in alot of places where there are a number of turkeys to move back and forth between flocks, I don't much think it will help. But there are alot of places where you will have 1-2 male birds and a handful of hens that end up in a secluded area withoutany other birds for several miles, and most of those get fed and shot the first hour of daylight the first legal day of season or even before season, because idiots don't have enough common sense to stop. A good percentage of those hens will go all season without getting bred with the early start dates. I've watched it happen for the last 15 years on a farm and you can't talk sense into the ones that are killing them. The hens will stay by themselves the rest of the season, never even attempt to initiate a nest it doesn't take long for a glock of 20 to dwindle to nothing when only 2 or 3 attempt to nest because they were the only ones receptive at the opening date. Like I said, In a good portion of the flocks it doesn't matter because another male will show up, but there are more of those other scenarios in low population areas than folks realize It seems to me that the obvious solution in a place with that few turkeys would just be to close the season. If there really is only 2 gobblers for miles and miles, they don't need to be killed at any time. I can't relate to a place like that, and I don't think it applies to most of the state. If we kill a gobbler that's been hanging around a group of hens, they usually replace him by the next day. I couldn't begin to tell you how many gobblers are around, but it's always a lot more than are seen.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#3911029
05/16/23 08:07 AM
05/16/23 08:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,812
LASW
turkey247
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,812
LASW
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It seems to me that the obvious solution in a place with that few turkeys would just be to close the season. .
That is the correct solution. And stop screwing around where numbers are fine.
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#3911126
05/16/23 10:45 AM
05/16/23 10:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 848
Land of dixie
Rockhound
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 848
Land of dixie
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That was Dr Craig Harper making mention of a study between several WMA’s where season opener as normal and pushed back two weeks. Made no difference in harvest, nest initiation, hatching or poult survival. Like I said in alot of places where there are a number of turkeys to move back and forth between flocks, I don't much think it will help. But there are alot of places where you will have 1-2 male birds and a handful of hens that end up in a secluded area withoutany other birds for several miles, and most of those get fed and shot the first hour of daylight the first legal day of season or even before season, because idiots don't have enough common sense to stop. A good percentage of those hens will go all season without getting bred with the early start dates. I've watched it happen for the last 15 years on a farm and you can't talk sense into the ones that are killing them. The hens will stay by themselves the rest of the season, never even attempt to initiate a nest it doesn't take long for a glock of 20 to dwindle to nothing when only 2 or 3 attempt to nest because they were the only ones receptive at the opening date. Like I said, In a good portion of the flocks it doesn't matter because another male will show up, but there are more of those other scenarios in low population areas than folks realize It seems to me that the obvious solution in a place with that few turkeys would just be to close the season. If there really is only 2 gobblers for miles and miles, they don't need to be killed at any time. I can't relate to a place like that, and I don't think it applies to most of the state. If we kill a gobbler that's been hanging around a group of hens, they usually replace him by the next day. I couldn't begin to tell you how many gobblers are around, but it's always a lot more than are seen. It's very real here in Lawrence County Tennessee in alot of places.
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: geeb1]
#3911192
05/16/23 02:03 PM
05/16/23 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
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Need a way to incentivize controlling predators. Any resident hunter that sends in 20 coon tails gets to open the season up on March 18……….
We dont rent pigs
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: CNC]
#3911201
05/16/23 02:50 PM
05/16/23 02:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,688
Pelham
Ben2
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,688
Pelham
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Need a way to incentivize controlling predators. Any resident hunter that sends in 20 coon tails gets to open the season up on March 18………. People would just buy coon tails or pick em up off road kill
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: Ben2]
#3911203
05/16/23 03:01 PM
05/16/23 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,210
Lamar
Fishduck
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,210
Lamar
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Need a way to incentivize controlling predators. Any resident hunter that sends in 20 coon tails gets to open the season up on March 18………. People would just buy coon tails or pick em up off road kill Thereby creating a demand for coon tails and a market. Dead coons don't eat turkey eggs. Who or what kills them is irrelevant .
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: Fishduck]
#3911205
05/16/23 03:03 PM
05/16/23 03:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
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Need a way to incentivize controlling predators. Any resident hunter that sends in 20 coon tails gets to open the season up on March 18………. People would just buy coon tails or pick em up off road kill Thereby creating a demand for coon tails and a market. Dead coons don't eat turkey eggs. Who or what kills them is irrelevant . Exactly!!!.. ^^^^^ ......Road kills would be insignificant compared to the totality.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: Zbrann]
#3911219
05/16/23 03:46 PM
05/16/23 03:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
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I actually did my own little survey awhile back just to see how much road kill would come into play…….Over a couple month period of time I kept an eye out to see how many road kill coons I could potentially pick up……It was only 3 or 4 during that time period and that was also taking into account that no one else is looking for coon tails. Put that incentive into place and I would have probably been lucky to have scavenged 1 out of the 4 before someone else did. The take away though was that for anyone looking to get 15-20 coon tails its not even close to being a feasible option……Every individual is either going to have to trap or pay someone else to.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: CNC]
#3911293
05/16/23 06:44 PM
05/16/23 06:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,199
South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,199
South Alabama
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Need a way to incentivize controlling predators. Any resident hunter that sends in 20 coon tails gets to open the season up on March 18………. As often as I get checked for a license or game check, I would open on the 18th regardless. The last time I saw a game warden in AL when hunting was in the late 90's
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: CNC]
#3911310
05/16/23 07:21 PM
05/16/23 07:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,168
Florence, Al
AlabamaSwamper
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,168
Florence, Al
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Maybe
But so far it hasn’t done anything in Wayne.
Still very very few turkeys County wide. Pockets yes but as many pockets with nothing I guess it would just depend on how high your hunter density and low your turkey population…….Once it reached a certain level it would take a lot more than just delaying the season by a couple weeks to create change. If you have 10 gobblers and a 1000 hunters after them then the season change is a moot point……If you have 50 gobblers and a 1000 hunters its still probably a moot point………But keep increasing that number and at some point you’ll cross that threshold where different outcomes begin to occur. When the decline started after the 2011 season we were killing less than 30% of our gobblers. Granted, we had a bunch on my place. The last day I hunted in 2011 I killed a bird to limit out the last week of the season. I didn’t even try to count how many I heard that morning in May. Prior to 2012 we killed between 2-4 birds but I basically was the only one that hunted. Since 2011 we’ve averaged less than 1 per season. I basically quit hunting about 2018. The same can be said for tens of thousands of acres I’m familiar with in this 3 county region. Yet the song remains the same. 1/4 of the turkeys pre 2012. Seems to have flattened out the last several years. Only one thing changed at that time in our area but the TWRA is handcuffed on what they can do about it.
BTR Scorer in NW Alabama
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: Zbrann]
#3911406
05/16/23 09:53 PM
05/16/23 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
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What changed in 2012??.......I'm not familiar with Tennessee's history.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: CNC]
#3911462
05/17/23 04:07 AM
05/17/23 04:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,985
colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,985
colbert county
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What changed in 2012??.......I'm not familiar with Tennessee's history. A lot of the guys I know that own large tracts of land were saying the same things that I was seeing in my areas I truly hunted. We all talked about it a good bit. The numbers really fell off for whatever reasons. Habitat changes (timber harvest) and increasing hunter numbers were the two obvious things we saw. CNC I think your statement about hunter numbers versus resources is on track
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: cartervj]
#3911540
05/17/23 08:20 AM
05/17/23 08:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,818
Awbarn, AL
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[quote=CNC]
CNC I think your statement about hunter numbers versus resources is on track Have we overcomplicated the process to the point that we cant solve basic problems anymore or is everyone in on some big charade?? The whole thing is baffling to me some days.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: CNC]
#3911551
05/17/23 08:40 AM
05/17/23 08:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,005
Covington County
Squeaky
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,005
Covington County
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What changed in 2012??.......I'm not familiar with Tennessee's history. I suspect chicken litter being spread on the hay and pasture ground due to rising commercial fertilizer cost. I could be wrong here, but I doubt it.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Re: TN 2 week season delay doesn’t matter?
[Re: Squeaky]
#3911567
05/17/23 09:03 AM
05/17/23 09:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,168
Florence, Al
AlabamaSwamper
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,168
Florence, Al
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What changed in 2012??.......I'm not familiar with Tennessee's history. I suspect chicken litter being spread on the hay and pasture ground due to rising commercial fertilizer cost. I could be wrong here, but I doubt it.
BTR Scorer in NW Alabama
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