Reminds me of a Baptist church or government, wanting to create committees and sub-committees and task forces and blue ribbon panels for research, study, discussion, fundraising and establishing "pathways to identify, implement and remedy the situation."

Or, y'know, do like you said ... start killing more predators, doing better habitat work and get the job done instead of carping about decoys and other insignifcant crap.

Rockhound,

It seems your assessment is what I am hearing from the other guys I know that live up there. Whether it’s luck or coincidence, they believe the changes have been positive. These folks hunt in the 3 county area that was pushed back first.

I don’t personally agree on everything they say, but they have killed more turkeys this year than ever. These particular individuals credit the season changes for contributing to the hatch success and number of available birds for hunting.

Whether any of us agree or disagree, the data point these folks are using is they are killing more turkeys. It’s a mixed group of middle aged fellas, from multiple states who own camps or lease property, as well as the local group they hunt with.

Also got a buddy up there today who killed one that was gobbling his head off yesterday and today. This is south central Tn.

And for the record…. I’m not for moving the seasons back.

Response above was just to contribute to the discussion, but not to say I agree with the season date changes.

I'm in the heart of the 3 counties that got pushed back first. Lawrence county has been starving for birds since 2007. Maybe coincidence, maybe not, since the changes we have had hatches 3 years straight, like we haven't had in literally 15 years. I hunted 6 mornings and never hunted past 9am this season and watched 9 gobblers die in those 6 trips, and could easily get on gobbling birds until the end of May of I still had tags, probably the end of June lol. I hunt 3 or 4 different counties, and it's been the same all over.

We've got more turkeys around our farm than we've had in 15 years, and I hope the trend continues.

This season was the first year of the pushed back two weeks season. Those 3 hatches were not affected by changes other than a decreased bay limit the past two seasons.

No sir, Lawrence, Wayne, Giles, lincoln and a few counties along the Mississippi River have had delayed seasons for a couple years now...

That was Dr Craig Harper making mention of a study between several WMA’s where season opener as normal and pushed back two weeks. Made no difference in harvest, nest initiation, hatching or poult survival.

Like I said in alot of places where there are a number of turkeys to move back and forth between flocks, I don't much think it will help. But there are alot of places where you will have 1-2 male birds and a handful of hens that end up in a secluded area withoutany other birds for several miles, and most of those get fed and shot the first hour of daylight the first legal day of season or even before season, because idiots don't have enough common sense to stop. A good percentage of those hens will go all season without getting bred with the early start dates. I've watched it happen for the last 15 years on a farm and you can't talk sense into the ones that are killing them. The hens will stay by themselves the rest of the season, never even attempt to initiate a nest it doesn't take long for a glock of 20 to dwindle to nothing when only 2 or 3 attempt to nest because they were the only ones receptive at the opening date.

Like I said, In a good portion of the flocks it doesn't matter because another male will show up, but there are more of those other scenarios in low population areas than folks realize

Where is the proof it didn’t help in Tn yet? You got to get hens bred to have poults that’s a fact. Dead gobblers don’t breed.

This is what all of my buddies and me experienced this year in middle TN as well.

Birds aren't done yet either in my area.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...research-in/id1666903553?i=1000596063468

This is the podcast from Craig Harper in Tenn discussing the results of his study on season frameworks in Tenn and the effects (or lack thereof). The lack of change in poult production or population is the "proof". Yes, dead gobblers don't breed but his live buddies or brothers do. Chamberlains theory that there is only one breeder gobbler is a fallacy and is being disproven with good research as we speak. The fact that there has been NO study showing infertility or low hatchability in any nesting study tells me that there is no lack of "breeder" gobblers. There are also no studies showing hens quit or don't nest because of the lack of gobblers.

So there is no already complete research and/or anecdotal data that could have served as a logical starting point for Chamberlain’s hypothesis on the dominant/breeder gobbler stuff? Purely hypothetical? Is that consensus amongst biologists OUTSIDE of his immediate circle of influence? If so, I find that absolutely fascinating because it is largely being preached as indisputable, scientific fact.

That’s why we’ve known it’s political from the start. This is some weird, woke movement in the outdoor realm. I will agree it is fascinating.

Actually, Chamberlain didn’t come up with it. It had been observed back in 60s or so, but never expanded on.

But just like chickens on a yard, they will lay eggs, and go broody, studies or not, if they aren't fertile they won't hatch.

But, I have indeed watched a flock of hens not even try once the only 2 male birds in the area die opening day.

This just doesn’t seem like something where the answer is black or white….all or nothing………Every area is going to have a ratio of hunter density to turkey population……..As that ratio increases there WILL eventually be a threshold where hunter harvest has an impact even if we have to take it to absurd levels……….The question is really……”Is this or that area exceeding that threshold??.......Are there too few turkey for the amount of hunters present??”……..I’d say the most logical place to look for that happening would be public land……

Maybe

But so far it hasn’t done anything in Wayne.

Still very very few turkeys County wide. Pockets yes but as many pockets with nothing

Where was it observed? Any studies? I’d like to read it

I guess it would just depend on how high your hunter density and low your turkey population…….Once it reached a certain level it would take a lot more than just delaying the season by a couple weeks to create change. If you have 10 gobblers and a 1000 hunters after them then the season change is a moot point……If you have 50 gobblers and a 1000 hunters its still probably a moot point………But keep increasing that number and at some point you’ll cross that threshold where different outcomes begin to occur.

I wonder if the suicidal turkeys can be contributed to flocks being broken up and hens headed to nest before they’ve been messed with for 2 weeks. My dad got on me for years hunting the turkeys while they’re still in flocks. Said all I was doing was boogering them up for when the hens leave for the nest and “they’re ready to be killed”. As I’ve aged I’ve seen some wisdom in that.