So after seeing those pasture birds skirt us just out of range yesterday, I went to the pattern board today to see what my gun would do at 50 yards. I’m shouting TSS # 9s. Pattern was meh compared to most of y’all at 94 pellets in 10” square. But I’m shooting a more open choke.

Anyway, I was shooting at a political candidate sign made of that hard corrugated plastic. I was surprised to see that more than several pellets did not penetrate the sign and were stuck in the board. Even more surprising was that even more than that were simply dents in the board and didn’t penetrate at all. Just bounced off.

I was really shocked as I thought this TSS was pretty much armor piercing. What say y’all TSS experts.

Interesting

I havent seen much difference in the killing power of tss compared to hevishot

My opinion is those shells are loaded with less than ideal purity of tss. Therefore they lack the weight of a higher purity. If these are factory loads of tss I’ve always had the suspicion they don’t buy the best purity and polished tss. There is a difference in tss and it’s not all produced equally. Back in the day before tss became commercially available I dabbled in procuring tss from china suppliers. I got educated on the quality fairly quickly.

I have never cared for #9 tss personally. My shot size preference is #8, this size has been very consistent for me over the years.

I have had trouble with some pellets from factory loads not sticking to a magnet when getting them out of the shot trap.

Doc, I am doubtful about the quality of those shells too. Hal's initial penetration tests over 15 years ago showed #9 TSS penetration about the same as #4 lead. I haven't done those sort of tests, but I've shot a lot of turkeys with it and had no issues with penetration. I dropped a cripple at nearly 80 yds with #8 in a 12 gauge and it folded him right up. I sometimes find #9 still in the back side of the turkey, but most pass through the head and neck.

Less than 100 hits is also concerning. The fact that the shot get out of the pattern that quickly makes me wonder if it's really 18g/cc shot. I wouldn't shoot one over 40 yds with those shells. Good luck checking it out.

Yea what they said^^

So what brand of shells are they? Might save some folks on here from crippling up some birds.

I wouldn’t even shoot those shells at 40 yards. With tss #9s, I would want at least 200 pellets in the 10” circle. Further the shot, those pellets spread and you lose density, I know you know that but I’m just saying.

All three of my 20 gauges produce patterns of 300+ with 9s at 40. I like mine tight. If I miss, I wanna miss clean. I can’t stand crippling one up. And I use my like a weed eater some too. My 12 gauges are too many to count honestly. With 94 pellets that don’t penetrate, you are going to be disappointed.


What constriction choke you shooting? Brand?

Doc, i have never done any tests but i am surprised to hear that about pellets not putting holes in the sign. I have killed a couple turkeys with the Federal TSS and Apex TSS and have been more than impressed with the results. I misjudged the distance on one and still rolled Him at 52 yards with Apex #9s so I wouldn’t worry too much about the sign. TSS is bad news on a Turkey noggin, especially the Apex. And As others have said, the numbers seem off. Mine put 335 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 and 114 in a 10 inch circle at 60 yards

I've shot my 1 5/8 oz #9 handloads and penetrated every pellet that hit through both sides of a large cardboard box at 60 yards so I would question the quality of the shot as well. I would never advise shooting a turkey that far but I like to experiment and shoot.

I have an aluminum ladder 100 yards from my bench. It has lots of pock marks from T9s. I load my own shells.

The federal 9s in 20 will put a hurting on one at 50 plus not sure what you’re shooting.

These are Federal TSS 1oz 9s. 1100fps. Maybe I misspoke. The 94 pellets in the 10” square were all pass through. I would say over well over 90% of the shot blew right through the board as a whole. Most of non-penetrating shots were on the outside of the pattern. I kept the board so I’ll post up a pic if it will be decent quality. I was just surprised to see any of the shot stuck in the board and any dents. It’s a HS Strut Undertaker .582 constriction so a little more open than most all of you are shooting.

This is the same gun/choke combo that was putting 132 pellets of 7/9 TSS at 40 yards in an 8” circle. So it’s kinda of perplexing the amount drop off in pellet count in 10 more yards given the fact that there has to be a more pellets per shell in straight 9s than 7/9 blend.

I’ll definitely be using a tighter choke come next year. I’m just hoping to put a boot on a neck this year.

If you're talking 20 gauge, you've got the light / low recoil loads. Great for kids, not so much for shooting 40+. You also need to shoot at a larger target to be sure your POA and POI are in line. With that small of a target, you may just be catching the edge of your pattern. TSS has no penetration issues. It's physics

Box says 1 1/2 oz shot. Didn’t have my readers on! 😂

Not sure what the problem is here but something isnt right for sure. With 3 inch #9s i would expect around 300 plus in a 10 inch target at 40 yards.

Something definitely doesn’t sound right, especially with the penetration. How hard/thick was the sign? My shot trap has 2 layers off 1/4” rubber mat and 2 layers of 1/8” rubber mat and at 40 yards the 9’s will go through all 4 and ding the sheet metal backing. I’m pretty sure the 9’s have 1.5” penetration at 80 yds in ballistic gel according to Hal so unless the sign was really hard, they should have all breezed right through or at least embedded in it. I would be interested to know the weight of those pellets. I know they advertise 18g/cc but with a velocity of 1100 fps 9’s should breeze right through or at least embed in it and definitely not bounce off.

As for the choke, I shoot the same choke but use a 2 oz load and it’s a perfect hunting pattern. It puts about 275 in the 10” and 250 in the 20”. With the 1.5 oz load you are using, that’s approximately 540+ pellets so you should be putting upwards of 250 in the 10”. If I were going to use the 1.5 oz load, I would go down to an .555 to .570 constriction and choke it down some. You are probably way too open for that small a payload.

I load to standard velocity. Even my 410 absolutely smokes them. I usually shoot them around thirty, thirty-five. I did drop a runner further than Ill say once though. Just poleaxed it.

I don't know what is in a Federal shell. I've never shot a factory shell. From what I've seen, the two biggest selers of shells vary in quality.

Anyhow there's a lot can happen. Bob Brister's book on Shotgunning The Art and Science should be on everyone's shelf.

My pattern board made me quit 9s.

I used to load 7x8x9. Mostly 8x9s
The 7s would blow thru plywood. And some of the 8s would or at least disappear into the 13/16 plywood. The 9s would leave a mark or stick to the board.

I’d ordered 7s and 8s 20 years ago.

Benji, I do not have any experience with the federal shells, but the number nine’s that I load myself will penetrate a turkey breast and carry a feather with it all the way to the keel bone from 50 yards

The 9s definitely don't penetrate as much as 7 or 8. The only times I've ever shot one with 7s was in NE where anything smaller than 7 was illegal. They sure produced a lot of blood, but the pattern was tighter than #8 in my 12 gauge and I already knew that the 8s would kill one at 75 yards from shooting that cripple. I couldn't see any reason to go to 7s for the additional penetration. I have attempted to shoot geese on pass shots with the 7s, but they never show when I have a gun..

The 9s throw a denser pattern and I know for certain that they have plenty of penetration for a 50 yd shot, so I shoot those now in the 20 gauge. I think Doc should be a lot more concerned about getting less than 100 hits than the penetration issue.