Loosing your pension is the way this works. Everyone's got to take risks and this is why pensions are a thing of the past and IMO should not be offered ANYWHERE EVER. "They" should pay a proper wage even in civil service jobs.

The last sentence Bama Earl pretty much nailed it. I've dealt with Unions from the management side and they suck a pair of stanky rutted up buck nuts on the 15th of January. But I've also sat in the board room and heard all the fat pocket dude's entitlement attitudes and zero respect for those that are actually making it happen for the company. I'm talking about some dude that couldn't even swing a hammer in a business where who's making him rich are people working with their hands. Jobs they themselves couldn't do in spite of their college degrees or "work" history.

The problem I know to be true is that the "Board of Directors" for most of these publicly traded companies are a dam joke at best they just let management run wild with compensation. At some level I believe the man at the top shouldn't be making $10 million per year while his average worker makes $10 an hour. That's real too. And a real problem in this Country. Things have gotten grossly out of whack.

Just personal experience but I worked at two union jobs and they didn't do a damn thing for me. If you were in the little buddy buddy club with the head guy you were taken care of though. Been nonunion ever since and have done very well. Grateful for my employer and they seem to appreciate our hard work with bonuses and good benefits.

Out of whack for sure... the top continues to get more and more wealthy. The gap between CEO and worker has never been this wide. What is another odd occurrence, the overwhelming support from middle-class America. They are quick to side with the business side over the workers... because it has become the rally of the far-right. The far-right leaders have taken Unions, which has been the fabric of the American workforce for 100 years, they have taken Unions and marked them a "Socialist".

People will say complaining about executive compensation is trashy, and the workers are just jealous. Our former CEO wasted enough money on new ventures to pay every employee a $10,325 dollar Christmas bonus one year. Instead he threw the money away, got fired , and still got millions in an exit plan. So yeah, the gap does get wider, and regardless of what anybody in this thread says, these guys at the top don’t wake up every day and have any “risk” associated with their job performance. I would gladly get fired for 5 or 6 million dollars.

hard-core Republican conservative - that is an obsolete description of republicans. Republicans these days are far from hardcore and considerably to the left of being conservative. They trample our constitutions routinely and think nothing of it.


Support for union welders, electricians, coal miners, steel workers is seen as weak, socialist, and Democrat. - those who see collective bargaining in private industry as socialism don't understand what socialism is. They need to educate themselves before using the term to throw stones at people who don't agree with them.

Public ownership and government management of natural resources comes much closer to fitting the true definition of socialism than collective bargaining in privately owned industries. Those who throw the "socialism" stone at those who support collective bargaining rights in private industry often show strong support for the concept of public ownership of wildlife resources with extreme government management. They are hypocrites.

On the other hand, the depletable natural resource of coal is viewed more as being privately owned. Although its consumption is taxed, the consumption and management of coal resources is private with very little government involvement. Collective bargaining by the labor force there does not even come close to fitting the definition of socialism by hypocrites..

Exactly, but when you don't have anything to bring to the conversation and you want to appear tough..... you just blast everything as socialist. it does not really matter if it has anything to do with socialism.

Doesnt shock me one bit. Most non-union shops will out-produce a union shop 2 or 3 to one when it come to production, generally quality too. You want to see the epitome of why stuff is so expensive, go to the assembly plants for any of the big 3 automotive companies and just look at all the union employees standing around doing nothing. Work 30 min, take a 10 min break. I had a Ford engineer tell me once that if they could bust the union, vehicle prices could be decreased by 50% and the profits would remain the exact same.

Union President complaining about the manager in the suit and tie whilst he himself is in a suit and tie. Flabbergasted.

[quote=Buckhammer]Well I will say this and I’m going to leave it alone when the government raises taxes it equals less money in our pockets we all raise cane,it’s law we pay taxes right?When the company raises our insurance premiums for no reason guess what it’s less money in our pockets and guess what it’s law we have insurance but according to you and a few others we should just keep eating it,Well guess what bs if you can’t afford to pay your employees and provide descent insurance that is required by law you shouldn’t be able to operate a business because without good employees your business wouldn’t survive anyway.[/quote

Relatively sure that the company did not just raise your insurance premium for no reason. Insurance contracts are repriced and renewed on an annual basis. If the insurance company raised the coverage cost, then it is only fair for your company to pass it on to you. Why should an increase the cost of "your" personal insurance benefit be paid for by the company. You're still doing the same job exact job you were doing. Company just passed the increase on to you.

It's now the law that you have to have insurance, because your union bosses funneled 100's of millions to democraps and played a major role in getting the demtards that passed Obamacare, elected into office. Yep, your union dues did that. Way to F up the entire insurance market and make things way more expensive. You paid your dues and that's where they went, so that one is 100% on you.

Health insurance or any insurance is not a right. You agreed to do a certain job for a certain pay rate. The company has no obligation whatsoever to provide you with insurance. If they do, then it is included as a part of your total compensation package. The math has to work and the company is only willing to pay a total of so much, for the work you do. Whether that is hourly wage, hourly plus insurance, hourly plus 401K match or whatever. You are worth as an example, $80K total for the job you do. How that $80K is broken out between payrate, and benefits is determined by your contract but the total is still going to be $80K.

I know how it works probably better than most.I’ve been on both sides of the table.The company pays a percentage of the premium the employee pays a percentage,the price goes up the company is to pay more the employee pays more is this what you think?

Most likely, your current contract allows for your employer to pass on a percentage of, or maybe even the full amount of, any increase in the cost of the annual health insurance benefit, directly on to the employee. It all depends on how it is defined in your contract and every contract is different.

I’m going to say this also we all pay social security hoping we will get it back one day but they are saying it’s going to dry up and I bet that strikes a nerve with you just like it does me,Well news flash for you some of those miners have been there for 25 years or longer and been paying into a pension plan so they could retire with benefits after 30 years service well guess what they can’t now unless the company comes to agreement and if not that money they payed in will not be reimbursed so I guess when you retire and the government tells you there’s no more social security you are going to be cool with it and say oh well it wasn’t a right any way even though I payed it in for 40 years.

It's hearsay. Why should we believe it here without any further evidence, especially from prejudiced sources?

Brookwood coal miners don't make cars. Your assumption is unsupported by evidence. Show us evidence where non-union coal mines produce 2 or 3 times more coal than the Brookwood coal miners produce.

That's exactly what is going to happen with SS. You can take that to the bank and may as well resign yourself to it. If the govt (that makes the laws we live by) is not going to live up to it's financial obligation to it's citizens, why would someone be dumb enough to think that a company would be forced to live up to theirs????? Pretty much every pension plan in the country is underfunded and it has been that way, since the early 80s.

Here's a news flash for you. I view myself as being personally responsible for my own retirement and not the govt or some company. It's called personal responsibility. I've been putting away money for the past 25 yrs, into 401Ks, IRA, investment accounts, hard assets and other income producing assets so that I dont have to depend on the government or some company to live up to their obligation in order for me to be able to retire comfortably. Tell me this. How much do you contribute a month to your "Pension Plan" and what is your expected annual benefit at retirement. I'm assuming since you're saying 25-30 years, this was most likely set up as a defined benefit plan back in the 80s or 90s before they went the way of the dinosaur.

While you're trying to educate us on collective bargaining, do you not understand that the Brookwood coal miners don't have a current contract? Strikes by labor and lockouts by companies occur when negotiations for new contracts stall.

Listen instead of running your mouth about irrelevant stuff like building cars and you may learn a thing or two.

I’m not under any contract but I will stand up for what is right and what is wrong it’s stealing any way you look at it and these companies dangle these benefits out there on a string to attract good employees and they should have there feet held to the fire to provide them.

The only way to be able to truly determine that would be to put a non-union and a union crew on the same vein for a week or two, back to back, have an unbiased third party record production metrics, and see what the results are. Why dont you show us evidence that the union crews are getting more production??? Unions are unions, whether coal, IBEW, UAW, or any of the other 100 or so unions. There are some super hard workers in some and for every one hard worker that is exceptional at his or her job, there is one that equally just is worthless, that collects a paycheck, normally larger than the good worker, that cannot be fired no matter how worthless they are due to seniority, etc. Unions used to have a place in society, particularly back when safety regs were so lax, but quickly became corrupt and nothing more than a money laundering operation for the union bosses and democrat politicians.

I dont know anything about the Brookwood contract, whether they are on strike, or whether their contract has elapsed or what the situation is and I dont really care one way or the other. While I am talking about unions and contracts in general terms, I do have years of experience dealing with unions in a manufacturing environment and every single one that I've dealt with has been loaded with DA's like you. If what you are saying is true and they do not have a current contract, Brookwood' negotiating team had better be careful playing hardball or they might end up costing all those union guys their careers, with new management and this current labor market. Shouldn't you be out there somewhere carrying sign, protesting, or are you on break, or is that not your "craft" ????

Because I'm not the one who just proved with their own words that I'm pulling crap out of the air (to put it nicely) to distract people from supporting hard working Brookwood coal miners in thier efforts to obtain a fair contract. You just proved you did that.

I proved that most of the accusations and insinuations of the critics of the miners is false by sharing Warrior Met's own description of them. Warrior Met should know, but you don't have a clue.