I’m usually pretty good with this but these two have me a little stumped

Deer 1





Deer 2

Deer came from same property. After I get a few responses, I’ll post up a pic of the heads side by side

1 responce

Although toothwear doesn’t fall into the typical category I’d like to see I’m bidding 3 or older on deer #1.
Deer #2 I’ll say 3. The ratio of dentine to enamel is not consistent with what is taught but there are other things I’ve learned to take note of that make me believe those deer are older than they appear.

I’ll play.

3 on number 1
2 on number 2

That is what they look like if you compared them to a tooth wear chart. However we all know this is not an exact science.

3
3

Ok. So here is the confusing part. Like I said, both deer came from same property so that should take a little variance out. Deer on the right is Deer 1, deer on left is Deer 2. I would have expected Deer 1 to be no more than 2. This makes me question the validity of aging deer jawbones. I know it is not 100% accurate but this has me stumped

Lefthorn, after aging jawbones from all over north and central AL on a lot of the same properties now for several years, I can tell you confidently that I trust the toothwear and aging technique to identify fawns, 1 year olds and 2+. What I have seen in real life vs what is taught on toothwear aging can be vastly different. There are too many factors that come in to play to trust it as an end all be all method past the age of 3. Diet, soil type, chewing patterns and genetics all play a part in how the teeth age. Unless you’ve got a tag in his ear as a fawn you’ll never know 100%. With that said, like Bham has pointed out, it’s much easier to determine an age estimate with a pile of jawbones from the same general location.

I’ve got jawbones from one property dating back to 2000, and about 1/3 of the jawbones on bucks age MUCH younger than we know the deer are based on camera surveys. There have been multiple bucks killed that weighed well over 200 lbs, with high scoring antlers, that were easy to identify and track from one year to the next. Some of them aged at 2-3 years old, when in fact, we knew they were not.

The deer from the jaw bone bowtarist posted for me has me stumped on his age. He was a small framed deer. He was ran down from rut he didn't have any fat on him at all You could see his back bone. He was a short bodied deer and had a short looking nose. Everyone that looked at him said if you looked at him and tried to age him from his body size you'd say 2.5. He had little characteristics though that made me think he was older. Right at 5 inch bases and his burrs are so big around you can't wrap your fingers around and touch. He also had a really deep indentation in his forehead I've never seen on a deer. I'm not sure I'm still kinda stumped on it.

Can’t really base age on body weight and size. I’ve seen quite a few older bucks that weighed between 130-140 lbs BEFORE the rut, even on high fertility soils. Those same bucks would barely weigh more than 100 lbs after rut. Some deer are just smaller than others. It’s just like people. You’ll have an average weight per age class. Then you’ll have a range of weights per age class. There can be considerable overlap there. If you lined up 100 30 year old men most are going to be between 5’8”-6’2”. There will be a few much shorter and a few much taller. Some round, some thin. Some with more muscle mass. Some with less. Deer are no different.

Mbrock that makes alot of sense I've never thought about it that way. You know thats not the normal thinking most ppl myself included think that older deer means bigger body. I have another deer that I killed in the same area that's at the processor I'm gonna get the jawbone out of and compare.

If all this is true, how in the heck can you "age" deer on the hoof? Or, for that matter, age deer by jawbone? This is making me think other than tags or cameras (somehow demonstrating it's the same buck), it's very, very difficult to know whether you are killing mature deer.

Great question. I think body characteristics would be best bet. Even though they may not be big, they should still exhibit signs of aging

Yes, regardless of weight “most” deer still have certain characteristics of aging that are identifiable whether they are 145 or 245. There are exceptions.

Mbrock could you tell us what would be some of the good characteristics to look for as far as knowing a buck is mature or not. Have you ever seen the deep indentation in the forehead like I was talking about my buck had playing a role in aging?

Pot belly. Neck. Sway back. Roman nose. Legs kinda look short. Big shoulders and rump.

A little detail on what you are referring to as a "Roman Nose" please

Like a Nubian goat. 😁

Wrinkles or folds of skin around the ears, neck and jawline are always signs of an older deer. Sagging brisket is a dead giveaway. If the brisket says and his shoulders are broad and squared off with no distinction between the neck and shoulders then he’s mature. Also most 4 year olds still look somewhat leggy. A 5+ appears short legged because his body cavity is deep. I have noticed the forehead on many older bucks has a distinct drop or ridge line as the skeletal structure changes.