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Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: SwampHunter] #3351247
02/13/21 07:28 PM
02/13/21 07:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,189
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,189
South Alabama
If you are considering writing a letter, now is the time, near the meeting so it is fresh on their minds.
Here are some points that are probably salient.
Turkey populations fluctuate normally with weather and predator populations and they have been very (possibly unnaturally) high after restocking
Are the "indicators" of "poults per hen" truly indicative of reproduction and or population trends? Mostly collected on public land. Not scientifically significant
Alabama's "wild turkey report" reproduction data shows NO decline over the last 10 years.
According to the hunter survey hunter harvest trends have been relatively flat until they changed survey techniques in 2017 when it went down.
According to the hunter survey days per kill trends have been relatively flat until they changed survey techniques in 2017 when it went WAY up.
Other states with later start dates, shorter seasons and lower limits are seeing the same perceived declines
Hatching eggs and raising poults is the only way to increase populations and lowering limits does nothing to help this.
Weather and predators controls reproduction
If early harvest of "dominant gobblers" is a real concern, ban decoys and fans
Is baiting increasing nest predator and pig populations thereby decreasing turkey nest success?
Is feeding corn leading to higher mortality due to aflotoxin to which turkeys are HIGHLY susceptible?
Does the dominant gobbler theory have any grounds in reality in a wild population of turkeys? We truly don't know.
We do know that multiple males are often represented in turkey clutches
Should turkey nesting season be 30 days or 100 days - we don't know but other ground nesting birds that renest often opt for the longer season to avoid weather event issues
We don't know how many turkeys are in Alabama......
We ought to change the season and limits on public lands and study the effects to see it it makes a difference
We ought to form a committee to look at the available data and make recommendations

Just some thoughts


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: SwampHunter] #3351411
02/13/21 09:53 PM
02/13/21 09:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,888
AL
B
BD Online content
10 point
BD  Online Content
10 point
B
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,888
AL
Gobbler nailed it. Grab a few of his bullet points and mail away

Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: SwampHunter] #3351468
02/13/21 10:51 PM
02/13/21 10:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7 Offline
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Southwood7  Offline
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Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...

Excellent Gobbler 👍🏻

Emails outbound soon



The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Job 33:4
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: SwampHunter] #3351597
02/14/21 09:06 AM
02/14/21 09:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104
Sylacauga, AL


Great list by gobbler!

Here's another question that I would like answered, and I really wish I could get a straight answer from someone who knows. I doubt that anyone who really knows would answer it publicly, but if you would pm me I will promise to keep your name out of it and I will be the villain who spreads it. smile.

So here's the question:.

Has a certain biologist who has a very strong social media presence made a whole lot of money off the dominant gobbler theory? His name seems to be included on every turkey study in every state, so I would think that he is getting paid on each of them. If so, isn't keeping the theory before the public making him rich? Or am I wrong and he just draws his university salary and all the studies are charity work?

Ok, that's actually more than one question, but in most things you just follow the money. Maybe I am completely wrong on this one, but I would like to know for sure. Thanks for any info.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #3352626
02/15/21 10:43 AM
02/15/21 10:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,189
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,189
South Alabama
Originally Posted by poorcountrypreacher


Great list by gobbler!

Here's another question that I would like answered, and I really wish I could get a straight answer from someone who knows. I doubt that anyone who really knows would answer it publicly, but if you would pm me I will promise to keep your name out of it and I will be the villain who spreads it. smile.

So here's the question:.

Has a certain biologist who has a very strong social media presence made a whole lot of money off the dominant gobbler theory? His name seems to be included on every turkey study in every state, so I would think that he is getting paid on each of them. If so, isn't keeping the theory before the public making him rich? Or am I wrong and he just draws his university salary and all the studies are charity work?

Ok, that's actually more than one question, but in most things you just follow the money. Maybe I am completely wrong on this one, but I would like to know for sure. Thanks for any info.


I can only speculate here but it usually works like this. The university pays these guys a salary. The professors as well as any one else (NWTF, AWF, DCNR) is in search of $$ to conduct research on relevant projects. Once a project gets funded it is conducted, sometimes cooperativley with another researcher from another university and usually with graduate students who get a stipend for their time on the project. The professors usually do these meetings, meet and greets, podcasts, etc on their own dime to not only present the data but help drum up more research $$ (and it is good for the ego ;)). I doubt he is getting a dime from his presence on social media and I don't doubt his motives. my $.02


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: SwampHunter] #3352762
02/15/21 12:41 PM
02/15/21 12:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104
Sylacauga, AL



Thanks gobbler.

That is how I thought it worked, but I thought that the professors got a certain % of the grant as a salary for his work on the project. That was the way it worked long ago in vocational education, but everything I know regarding academic research is long since obsolete.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #3352807
02/15/21 01:19 PM
02/15/21 01:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,217
Georgia and Missouri
Semo Offline
12 point
Semo  Offline
12 point
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,217
Georgia and Missouri
Originally Posted by poorcountrypreacher


Great list by gobbler!

Here's another question that I would like answered, and I really wish I could get a straight answer from someone who knows. I doubt that anyone who really knows would answer it publicly, but if you would pm me I will promise to keep your name out of it and I will be the villain who spreads it. smile.

So here's the question:.

Has a certain biologist who has a very strong social media presence made a whole lot of money off the dominant gobbler theory? His name seems to be included on every turkey study in every state, so I would think that he is getting paid on each of them. If so, isn't keeping the theory before the public making him rich? Or am I wrong and he just draws his university salary and all the studies are charity work?

Ok, that's actually more than one question, but in most things you just follow the money. Maybe I am completely wrong on this one, but I would like to know for sure. Thanks for any info.


All grants are open to public record requests. Now, individuals would have to report any "outside" business in their annual disclosures. This is where it can be more difficult to determine benefits.

Federal grants have many rules concerning how funds must be spent (as do many state grants). Privately funded grants are not heavily regulated.

I am not speaking directly about any person specifically. And schools have varying levels of determining conflicts if interest with their faculty and how benefits can be accepted.

Last edited by Semo; 02/15/21 01:20 PM.
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #3352811
02/15/21 01:23 PM
02/15/21 01:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 264
God's Country
S
Swampdrummin Offline
4 point
Swampdrummin  Offline
4 point
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 264
God's Country
Originally Posted by poorcountrypreacher


Great list by gobbler!

Here's another question that I would like answered, and I really wish I could get a straight answer from someone who knows. I doubt that anyone who really knows would answer it publicly, but if you would pm me I will promise to keep your name out of it and I will be the villain who spreads it. smile.

So here's the question:.

Has a certain biologist who has a very strong social media presence made a whole lot of money off the dominant gobbler theory? His name seems to be included on every turkey study in every state, so I would think that he is getting paid on each of them. If so, isn't keeping the theory before the public making him rich? Or am I wrong and he just draws his university salary and all the studies are charity work?

Ok, that's actually more than one question, but in most things you just follow the money. Maybe I am completely wrong on this one, but I would like to know for sure. Thanks for any info.



He’s a narcissist - his benefit in all of this is the fame and recognition. They like money too but more than that they like all eyes on them for how great they are. He pumps his shucks more than those YouTube guys with the hashtag and emojis in the video names.


Quack quack.
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #3352903
02/15/21 03:17 PM
02/15/21 03:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,672
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
wmd  Offline
10 point
W
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,672
Madison, AL
Originally Posted by poorcountrypreacher



Thanks gobbler.

That is how I thought it worked, but I thought that the professors got a certain % of the grant as a salary for his work on the project. That was the way it worked long ago in vocational education, but everything I know regarding academic research is long since obsolete.


Some schools will let professors buy out all/part of their teaching obligation; where I went to school, the professors could use grant money to pay their summer salaries since most were on 9-10 month contracts and didn't teach during the summers.

Unless said biologist (I have no idea who it is) has started their own company - and is getting paid through the company and the school, he is probably not going to get rich doing research.

The decoys/fans/aflatoxin are all interesting topics that should probably be explored.

Last edited by wmd; 02/15/21 03:19 PM.

"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: Semo] #3352904
02/15/21 03:18 PM
02/15/21 03:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted by Semo
Originally Posted by poorcountrypreacher


Great list by gobbler!

Here's another question that I would like answered, and I really wish I could get a straight answer from someone who knows. I doubt that anyone who really knows would answer it publicly, but if you would pm me I will promise to keep your name out of it and I will be the villain who spreads it. smile.

So here's the question:.

Has a certain biologist who has a very strong social media presence made a whole lot of money off the dominant gobbler theory? His name seems to be included on every turkey study in every state, so I would think that he is getting paid on each of them. If so, isn't keeping the theory before the public making him rich? Or am I wrong and he just draws his university salary and all the studies are charity work?

Ok, that's actually more than one question, but in most things you just follow the money. Maybe I am completely wrong on this one, but I would like to know for sure. Thanks for any info.


All grants are open to public record requests. Now, individuals would have to report any "outside" business in their annual disclosures. This is where it can be more difficult to determine benefits.

Federal grants have many rules concerning how funds must be spent (as do many state grants). Privately funded grants are not heavily regulated.

I am not speaking directly about any person specifically. And schools have varying levels of determining conflicts if interest with their faculty and how benefits can be accepted.



Thanks, that was the kind of information I was wondering about. I had a little experience with such stuff long ago, but I have intentionally tried to forget about it. It seems like that it used to be that a prof who pulled in a research grant for his university couldn't get money out of it, unless it was to fund his salary in the summer when he wasn't normally paid. But back then they could take consulting work with a different entity and they could get extra money that way. I will drop pursuing this unless someone can tell me about a specific incident.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: SwampHunter] #3352905
02/15/21 03:19 PM
02/15/21 03:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,166
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,166
B'ham
Based on the people I know that started Turkey hunting in the last 10 years.....

a ban on hunting out of a ground blind or using a decoy would pretty well eliminate 90% of those people's chances at ever killing a bird. Harvest numbers instantly cut in 1/3 or maybe 1/2.


No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: Goatkiller] #3353159
02/15/21 08:34 PM
02/15/21 08:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,387
Northwest Bama
R
Ridge Life Offline
14 point
Ridge Life  Offline
14 point
R
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,387
Northwest Bama
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
Based on the people I know that started Turkey hunting in the last 10 years.....

a ban on hunting out of a ground blind or using a decoy would pretty well eliminate 90% of those people's chances at ever killing a bird. Harvest numbers instantly cut in 1/3 or maybe 1/2.


That’d be awesome, baiting would sky rocket

Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: Ridge Life] #3353170
02/15/21 08:51 PM
02/15/21 08:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 575
Butler Co
4Him146 Offline
4 point
4Him146  Offline
4 point
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 575
Butler Co
Originally Posted by Ridge Life
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
Based on the people I know that started Turkey hunting in the last 10 years.....

a ban on hunting out of a ground blind or using a decoy would pretty well eliminate 90% of those people's chances at ever killing a bird. Harvest numbers instantly cut in 1/3 or maybe 1/2.


That’d be awesome, baiting would sky rocket


If that’s the case then it’d be counter intuitive. You’d lose even more birds to aflotoxin from people feeding them.
And if you banned ground blinds then you lose the opportunity to take young hunters that can’t sit still

Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: 4Him146] #3353178
02/15/21 09:03 PM
02/15/21 09:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,217
Georgia and Missouri
Semo Offline
12 point
Semo  Offline
12 point
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,217
Georgia and Missouri
Originally Posted by 4Him146
Originally Posted by Ridge Life
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
Based on the people I know that started Turkey hunting in the last 10 years.....

a ban on hunting out of a ground blind or using a decoy would pretty well eliminate 90% of those people's chances at ever killing a bird. Harvest numbers instantly cut in 1/3 or maybe 1/2.


That’d be awesome, baiting would sky rocket


If that’s the case then it’d be counter intuitive. You’d lose even more birds to aflotoxin from people feeding them.
And if you banned ground blinds then you lose the opportunity to take young hunters that can’t sit still


If a kid needs a blind maybe he isn't old enough to be hunting.

Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: Goatkiller] #3353203
02/15/21 09:30 PM
02/15/21 09:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,436
Helena
3
3toe Offline
Talking Turkey
3toe  Offline
Talking Turkey
3
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,436
Helena
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
Based on the people I know that started Turkey hunting in the last 10 years.....

a ban on hunting out of a ground blind or using a decoy would pretty well eliminate 90% of those people's chances at ever killing a bird. Harvest numbers instantly cut in 1/3 or maybe 1/2.


Now there’s an idea.

Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: SwampHunter] #3353208
02/15/21 09:36 PM
02/15/21 09:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,803
LASW
turkey247 Offline
12 point
turkey247  Offline
12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,803
LASW
Y’all getting off track. Stop acting like we NEED to cut harvest. Kinda the point of this whole thread. It’s a lazy idea for the powers that be, to lower a limit and delay the season, like other states have done with virtually zero success.

Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: Semo] #3353220
02/15/21 09:53 PM
02/15/21 09:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,672
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
wmd  Offline
10 point
W
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,672
Madison, AL
Originally Posted by Semo
Originally Posted by 4Him146
Originally Posted by Ridge Life
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
Based on the people I know that started Turkey hunting in the last 10 years.....

a ban on hunting out of a ground blind or using a decoy would pretty well eliminate 90% of those people's chances at ever killing a bird. Harvest numbers instantly cut in 1/3 or maybe 1/2.


That’d be awesome, baiting would sky rocket


If that’s the case then it’d be counter intuitive. You’d lose even more birds to aflotoxin from people feeding them.
And if you banned ground blinds then you lose the opportunity to take young hunters that can’t sit still


If a kid needs a blind maybe he isn't old enough to be hunting.


Or maybe you start out easy in a ground blind and end up with a hard-core, traveling turkey hunter that doesn't need a blind ... [Linked Image][Linked Image]


"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: Semo] #3353227
02/15/21 10:05 PM
02/15/21 10:05 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,571
Behind you
Avengedsevenfold Offline
10 point
Avengedsevenfold  Offline
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Posts: 4,571
Behind you
Originally Posted by Semo
If a kid needs a blind maybe he isn't old enough to be hunting.


As the father of a young turkey hunter who KILLED his first turkey NOT in a blind..

That’s absurd


Carrying a gun isn't comfortable; but at times it is comforting

"Cause the cause for the pause you think you see is really concentration on the steel” NonPoint
Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: SwampHunter] #3353235
02/15/21 10:23 PM
02/15/21 10:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,340
Jackson County
B
BrentM Offline
Mr. Turkey
BrentM  Offline
Mr. Turkey
B
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,340
Jackson County
I’m all for a kid killing a turkey out of a tent, using decoys, or even over a big pile of corn. It’s the adults that do the same that screw everything up

Re: April only - 3 bird proposal [Re: SwampHunter] #3353238
02/15/21 10:29 PM
02/15/21 10:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
The guys that kill 15 birds a year poaching on other clubs land and claim they’re in TN when in AL can really feel good about themselves when the 3 bird limit ever does pass.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
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