as a YouTube turkey hunting video content creator, i've taken a conservation-minded approach to hunter recruitment -- all the ones I've gotten interested in turkey hunting suck as bad or worse than me and don't kill chit ... so i've done my part to preserve the flocks for the future ...

I appreciate your comment. I have attempted to address each point with my perspective. I challenge my way of thinking daily- am I doing the right thing? what could I change to do better? should I reconsider this? should I abandon that? My approach is always up for tailoring. Again, that's why I engage in forums such as this one when many would not due to their overall toxicity.

These forums can be incredibly toxic, no doubt. I'm hoping we can construct some positivity here though.

I agree. Legalities are a fine line in which we must toe during this time of turkey population troubles. I'd rather not see anyone's tactics infringed upon but for the sake of the resource I'm afraid it must be so. It's an alternative to loosing days and bag limits, my solely unscientific opinion. If we were making a surplus of turkeys it wouldn't need to be considered hence the reason I believe that should be our primary focus. Most critics of my position taunt the same "for sake of the resource," some are genuine (the reason I'm here) but most are not.

I understand the issue with stopping earlier and the voids being filled by other predators. But, removing a number of nest predators lowers the overall density so nesting success should improve to a point. I’m a believer in raise more turkeys to have more turkeys.

My main frustration is with the lazy management practices recently put in place throughout most of the turkeys range. The easiest target for regulation is legal gobbler harvest. This is being done, in my opinion, so the agencies can be seen as “doing something “. More poults are produced by trapping predators, and those extra turkeys are fed and kept healthy by planting chufas. These things cost money. Private land owners and leasers pay for it, because they love turkeys and turkey hunting. Imposing stricter regulations on legal gobbler harvest lowers incentive for the folks to spent their time and money. Less coons dead and less chufas planted. Easy solutions present themselves, such as using some of the corn lottery money on a bounty for coon and possum tails. Every turkey manager knows this will have a real-time, positive impact on poult recruitment, but the geniuses in charge of the resource will laugh you out of the room for mentioning it. Dave, I would personally like to see you use your platform to promote sound management practices, such as burning, trapping, and planting. Maybe it will help, but I think the DNR leadership (at least in Bama) are just like the rest of the politicians. They are in love with the sound of their own voice. Keep doing whatever you want to do, this is America. But don’t be surprised when the ol boys get ill watching you give away for free what they had to spend a lifetime earning.

Dave I appreciate you taking the time to come on here to share your prospective with this group. I do not know what the right answers are as I can see both sides of the coin. I personally think the increased pressure/numbers of hunters are a bad thing for the public land hunter and dwindling turkey population for many of the reasons already pointed out. I honestly feel sorry for the guys that only have public land to hunt. If that were my only choice these days, I'd go back to bass fishing.

I could get on board with increasing hunter numbers if these state agencies were truly using the surplus money generated for land purchase and research to find the answer to the problem, poult production!! I have seen several very educated people fail to bring that to the forefront when the opportunity was available to do so! With that said, I feel like the state of Alabama currently has the most incompetent leader in our game and fish departments history of existence. Under his leadership the state of Alabama is screwed in my personal opinion.

The game and fish agencies across much of the country have become politized and it's very unfortunate. Money is wasted and robbed, therefore never being utilized for the research and things you mention. Most states can't afford to hire CO's to enforce the current regulations on the books. I simply do not see the money generated from increased hunter recruitment/license sales being utilized for the necessary things that it should be used for.

I am one of the very people that cast shadow towards the turkey doc "Chamberlain". The man and his work simply do not impress me. He has spouted off a hypotheses (Dominate Gobbler) that is unproven!!! Several state agencies has taken this hogwash as the gospel and ran with it. He is one of the very folks that failed to mention poult recruitment as the number one issue with a declining turkey population. Until these state agencies and biologist bring that glaring issue to the forefront, they will never fix the problem. Arkansas is a prime example, adjusting hunting season and bag limits have failed them miserably. Why do these state agencies continue to throw the same crap against the wall and hope it sticks??

I will no longer support the NWTF because of what they have become. I will not support TFT for the simple fact I asked them how my money would be spent if I contributed to their cause. Never received a reply from those folks. Also their mission statement is vague and along the same lines as the NWTF. I personally want to support a group that their mission is to get answers to poor poult recruitment. I don't think working with state agencies that are politized will accomplish much in the current environment.

Out of all this that has taken place there is one positive, I've learned that we aren't producing turkeys, my eyes have been opened to that fact. I need to do more to help the turkeys on the property I control. In my personal opinion a little bit of effort can make a difference.

I have addressed most of the concerns with another perspective that probably does nothing but create more questions. That's kind of the way I find every issue surrounding this goes. For every answer I think I am coming up with, another 2 questions originate. I hope my responses aren't seen as combative. We share many of the same concerns. I've just tossed and turned for hours at night while I should have been sleeping, trying to approach these issues from every angle attempting to make the correct choices.

The important question is....Does Dave Owens put sugar in his cornbread?

Again, correlation. Not causation. There are many factors at play here. I will accept some of the blame. But I will not apologize for motivating or creating more turkey hunters. Another viewpoint, the increase in turkey hunters will save our opportunities. Turkey numbers once upon a time were thought to be, "mission accomplished, they'll take care of themselves from here on out." The current environment says that belief was a mistake. Our invigorated crowd has pushed turkeys to the top of the species in which agencies and wildlife professionals will funnel their attentions. And it's very likely that the mistakes of the past may never happen again.

To address your other mention that I though was interesting concerning the "secrecy" of turkey hunting. Many point to the likes of Tom Kelly, Gene Nunnery, among others in telling the tales of old turkey hunting. Thank goodness these gentlemen had the foresight to realize without the distribution of the knowledge and understanding they acquired over lifetimes of hunting- the potential for that hunting to withstand the test of time was bleak. They used pen and paper which we have now replaced with keyboards. They used the social media of their era to administer the principles and traditions that should govern turkey hunting. How could one that kills turkeys, speaks lightly and recruits no one be productive for our sport? That should be viewed as pure selfishness. I'm thankful the before mention authors were not of that crowd.

Again, this response is not intended to challenge or attack. I'm providing my stance regardless of how skewed some may feel my intentions are.

Mike, I appreciate your voice on this issue and know that your actions back up your words. I can't comment on Dave's message because I have watched less than 30 minutes of his product and none of THP or the others mentioned. I just don't watch any hunting shows either on over-the-air or internet. I do watch videos from the likes of Dr Grant Woods and videos from the MSU Deer Lab and some that Dr Craig Harper has been a part of. I've also recently taken to listening to podcast from some of those just mentioned and others in the realm of habitat management and trapping.

From personal experience I've seen what an aggressive nest predator removal program can do. On a river bottom property that always had turkeys to seeing no flocks in the fall for years and only hearing a few birds gobble in the spring. After removing 150 nest predators in a year seeing at least 2 hens with 19 poults the following spring. Continued trapping and now see turkeys in good numbers but nothing like the past. Recruitment is the key. Hopefully I can get fire in the areas where it's appropriate and herbicide applications in the areas that cannot be burned.

It's not as much "Dave Owens" that is causing the issues. If you were to ask me this 3-4 years ago my answer would have been different, though.

Personally, I HATE the YouTube culture and the way hunting has become a part of it. I long for the days when you could only watch hunting via the outdoor channel or by buying videos at the store. There's no way in hell the hunting video folks (real tree, primos, mossy oak, etc) are putting out those videos on the shelf like they used to. They are all on YouTube now.

I hate how the public land concept has been glorified and I hate the way Dave has done it along with all the other characters that are YouTube famous.

Some folks only have access to public land. Some folks have access to private land, but choose to spend their days hunting at the WMA's because its more fashionable to post your kill pics in front of the gate.

Don't kid yourself. The majority of the videos is about THE KILL...and making sure everyone sees it, and how you do it. Turkey hunting is difficult and you are exceptionally good at it. I'm not saying you're not providing good insight regarding other topics along the way, but that really does not appear to be the focus of the videos from the ones I have seen.

I now live in the quota hunt world being that I live in Florida. I’ve hunted both turkey and ducks on quota and non quota land. The hunting is infinitely better in the quota hunt areas. The quota turkey hunt I went on this year looks exactly like the habitat I hunt in open permit places. It is comparable in size and they don’t do anything different habitat management wise. On the quota hunt I heard at least 12 different birds in 2 days and my buddy and I both killed mature birds. Only 2 weekends are open for this quota and 7 birds were killed off this property. I hunted about 10 days on 3 different open permit wma’s and only heard one gobble and saw 2 hens the entire time. Habitat type is comparable, location is similar, habitat management is the same. The only difference is the amount of hunters they allow and the harvest numbers. If days of the season and killing turkeys isn’t a factor in population why is there such a large difference in the quality of the hunt on quota vs non quota hunts? It makes sense to me at least in what I’ve witnessed that killing less turkeys and hunting less days improves the quality of hunting on WMA’s. It makes since to me that shortening the season and lowering bag limits would clearly improve the population. IMHO I would rather go on 1 great turkey hunt a year than go on 10 where I don’t see or hear anything.

And more quotas, shorter seasons, lower bag limits, and further nonresident/public land restrictions are being done to offset the flood of people brought to our local wmas/national forests by YouTube hunters loose lip policy. The data is clear as day. And game managers around the country go on far less information to make decisions I promise you. Many concerned hunters speaking out are either past or present dnr employees myself included. Your taking away my public hunting opportunity because you want to hunt for a living. You may be hunting and filming for no charge but their is a price to be paid. We are reaping what you’ve sown. And frankly the money being made vs the damage done to public turkeys/hunter opportunity isnt close to equal. Turkeys and Turkey hunters are being sold out for pennies on the dollar frankly. And it’s a shame. You dang well know it too.

Cove, please help me understand what “good for the resource” — an expression you use repeatedly— means to you. It ain’t like turkeys are on the verge of going extinct. They exist over a wider area and in places where they never did before. They are not going to disappear if you and the rest of us stop hunting them. Sure, I’d like for them to be more numerous, but that’s me and that’s me imposing my values, not necessarily what is good for turkeys.

How are you doing what’s good for the resource???

Raising money for gobble counters and tagging hens to see where they go and where they don’t isn’t getting it done. The research is done on what it takes to produce more turkeys. If you manage the property for turkeys, everything benefits. The doc’s research won’t let him say predator control= more turkeys but it will let him say a delayed season or one less male bird killed a year will. The money raised by hunters’ dollars, directly or indirectly, should be put into what is proven throughout history to work. The state already has the equipment and pays the personnel. Buy the diesel and the land it takes and manage it to support a wild turkey instead of the rabbit thickets that infest most of the south. Give timber company incentives to burn their properties that blanket the south. I live around public land that is maintained through burns and tsi on regular basis, and is as crowded as any I’ve seen, yet the turkey numbers are there. They are educated and hard to kill, but there are turkeys everywhere. There’s private land across the south that are hunted harder and that kill way more gobblers than any wma and they aren’t running out of birds to hunt.

My only question is what happened to a Chubbs? The videos went way downhill without him……

He answered that in one of his posts above.

I'm a third generation turkey hunter. I have been chasing them for over 5 decades myself. I have read this entire thread. You seem like a nice guy and I have watched some of your videos as well as Catman, THP, etc. You did not recruit me as a hunter. I have friends that have been traveling for decades hunting public land and their story is all the same. Public land is quickly being ruined for turkeys by the amount of newbies. They all see it as an exploitation of a public resource paid for by taxpayer dollars. More turkey hunters does not equal more turkeys. I wish you well and hope your not mad but I see you doing more damage than good to a sport that has been a part of me, other relatives, friends, my Father and Grandfather's lives.