We have had this discussion with the State bios before and I don't ever seem the get an explanation on HOW lowering the limit on adult gobbler in the spring will help with reproduction - admittedly THE population problem we are having - still waiting in everyone I have asked!!
http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...766#Post1451766

>>>I believe there are biologists with the State on here (AU grads??) who believe exactly that and I don't think the State will be interested in 1) your concept that adult gobblers are "spare" birds and their harvest has little impact on the population as a whole or 2) listen to anyone who thinks Alabama already has (despite the perceived decline in numbers) the country's best and densest population. I continue to hear it over and over that we need to reduce the limit and when I ask HOW that will help I get crickets...... Like this:<<<

I'm sure know a lot more biologists that are AU grads than I do, but I've yet to meet one that thought our generous spring gobbler limit had anything to do with the overall population. Nobody could have gotten that idea when I was there. If AU has succumbed to the politically correct version of turkey management, then that is indeed sad. The only ones I've seen on here that I knew were biologists and thought a limit reduction might help the overall population went to another school. All the biologists that I actually know seem to understand the concept of the spring gobbler being an excess bird.

I guess if a place had so few turkeys that legal hunting could wipe out every gobbler before the hens were bred, then reducing the limit or starting the season later might indeed be necessary. I have trouble conceiving of such a place, but maybe they do exist. If they do, by all means start the season later there. What has that got to do with the places where it is certainly not an issue?

Gobbler, what do you think of Lovett William's idea that a later season does more harm than an earlier season, due to hunters disturbing the hens on the nest and causing them to abandon them? I forget where I read that, but he had some genuine research that seemed to back him up.

>>>>Thank goodness for spell check and an AU education
I hear rattlesnakes nest in the ground now!! I've had all the biology lessons I can stand on this thread<<<

Actually, the spell check on my computer had never heard of gallinaceous. But Google knew, and I'll admit I checked. I was right anyway.

I thought you would enjoy my biology lesson on the nesting habits of gallinaceous birds.

I certainly can't add anything to the preacher's statements as there are no holes in his logic. I do wonder why a no jakes law hasn't been brought up. While I haven't looked back through the MS wild turkey reports to see if an actual increase in gobbles heard has been documented since the no jakes implementation, I can say that on a local level, it can have a big impact on the quality of your hunting experience. However, it would be a tough sell here since it hasn't produced a subsequent increase in MS's turkey population. In fact, MS's population has really backed up in the last 5 years. There are no easy answers to a region wide problem.

Which is why I don't shoot Jakes and haven't for years. However I would be against a regulation against shooting Jakes. If some jackleg wants to shoot Jakes, he will only be effecting the gobbling amount and intensity on his property, not mine. If it makes him happy or he does not have enough sense to realize that every Jake he kills is one less gobbling bird next year then that is his problem. I would rather the State have less regulations not more, even those laws and regulations to protect stupid people from themselves. Just MHO.

Lovett and Speake were my mentors and both did groundbreaking research on turkeys in the time frame when turkeys were increasing from restocking. I remember reading something Lovett wrote regarding hunters on Fish eating creek busting up nests from disturbance while hunting. It wouldn't surprise me if it had an impact. Also if there is valid research suggesting early harvest of gobblers prior to breeding limits nesting and poult recruitment, I wouldn't be opposed to that either! I sure like to see the research that shows how a limit impacts the population before they make changes though. And NOT some computer model that shows it like models show global warming. This is one of the main objectives of the new AU/DCNR turkey research projects in AL.



As always but I might have had to look up gall-in-a-whaetever too

>>>I would rather the State have less regulations not more, even those laws and regulations to protect stupid people from themselves. Just MHO.<<<

Ahem; I guess a buck limit is less regulation?



>>>I remember reading something Lovett wrote regarding hunters on Fish eating creek busting up nests from disturbance while hunting. It wouldn't surprise me if it had an impact.<<<

That's probably where the research took place. I was really surprised that hunter disturbance would make a hen abandon a nest as easily as what his research showed. But then, it probably included idiots who moved the eggs around and such as that. I do know that every time I've even gotten close to a nesting hen with a tractor and bush hog she abandoned the nest for good, even though I've tried several times to put cover around it. Moving the season later could have unintended consequences; that's usually what government initiatives do.

>>>I sure like to see the research that shows how a limit impacts the population before they make changes though. <<<

I predict you ain't gonna get that, because it doesn't exist, and I don't believe it ever will exist, cause it goes against all common sense. But I predict you are gonna get a lower AL limit anyway, just because.

I'm gonna start a new thread that doesn't involve predators. I hope anyone that really knows anything will post in it.

You have probably noticed (but failed to register) that I have become MUCH more Libertarian as of late! As with any one with a few more years (or political aspirations - which I don't), I am getting to regret my participation in the buck limits recommendations (changing my mind). It may have done some good but has resulted in further erosion's in our liberty's and has started the slide on the "slippery slope" as can be seen with the discussion on turkey limits. So, in short, I agree with 49r..... sorry

Understood, gobbler. I won't mention it again; its a smart guy that is willing to change his mind. You have made me change mine more than once, so does that make me smart too? Probably not.

Coons not only steal eggs they break three times as many as they steal

How about this. Do yall think it hurts the turkey population in our National Forest when they burn all of its land right after time for turkeys to lay there eggs?

Nope better burn than not regardless of when IMHO

The problem with your post is terminology. You would lead someone to believe "all of its land" is burned during the growing season. I believe you are referencing the Talledega NF from previous posts you have. So that would be 667,000 acres in two districts.

Now for the numbers. It appears from publications online, the goal is to burn a growing season burn at about 5% of the total NF acres each year on a rotation. So, 5% is a smidge lower than 100%. It's important how you say or write things. Especially when someone may not fully understand what's going on.

Knowing the numbers - I would say the benefits far outweigh the loss of an individual nest. Can I prove that - not exactly. However - my opinion on the gain vs the loss is directly related to the numbers.

When do they burn it?

A growing season burn is typically Spring/Summer and obviously weather dependent. The point is to better control woody species that are actively growing. An early Spring and favorable weather could result in the plan to be mid to late Spring. A late Spring and unfavorable conditions could push the burn into the Summer.

Here is a pretty interesting read on nesting season burns. I tend to agree that the long term benefits outweigh the loss.

http://www.talltimbers.org/images/pubs/FireBreedingBirdsBooklet-small.pdf

Got turkeys all over this place (my personal turkey lease) and we burn it in May every time we burn it.