I know a lot of people are starting to promote trapping as a solution to the impacts that coyotes are having on deer populations across our state��however��Has anyone here monitored the effects of trapping after say 3-5+ years???

I�m just curious as to what happens long term. I don�t question that in the short term that trapping can provide a property with an increase in prey populations�. but I can see a lot of possible issues that could arise over the long haul where trapping might fail to produce the same results long term. Don�t get me wrong here, I�m not saying it will for sure play out one way or the other�.I don�t know�..BUT�..There are many questions that can be posed that would suggest there is definitely the possibility for issues to arise that are counter productive to our goals.

When prey populations go up on your land due to removing predators�..will this cause immigration to greatly increase from predators on surrounding lands?

When prey populations increase on your property��will the remaining predators produce larger litters?

If your land is already producing as many fawns as the habitat can hide from predators��where will the additional fawns that are produced seek refuge if additional �prime� habitat is not also provided? Will they be sitting ducks for new predators to move in on if they are forced to bed/fawn in the poorer, secondary fawning areas?

Will the number of predators being removed annually decrease over time, remain stable, or increase?

These are just a few of the questions or issues I have regarding the possible impacts of long term trapping efforts on a piece of property. This doesn�t even include the cost involved and if that cost is justified. What is your opinion or experience with it�.Do you guys feel like trapping can be a long term solution?

But are you really controlling predators or just temporarily shuffling things around and setting yourself up for a big crash down the road? What happens when someone traps for 3-4 years and then decides they don�t want to pay for it the next summer and quits the program? Will there be a major increase in predator populations followed by a crash in prey species?

This study was done on a property I hunt in Cherokee co done by Grant Woods and UGA.
Cherokee Co. Study

It is called nuisance animal control and not nuisance animal eradication for good reason. Predation is one of many limiting factors that a land manager has to consider. Aldo Leopold spoke of the oak-deer-indian dynamic in A Sand County Almanac. His chapter "Thinking Like Mountain" also speaks to the naive idea that extirpating wolves was the simple solution to increase deer numbers out West.

A good land manager develops a balanced approach that manages predation as one of many limiting factors affecting your deer herd. Coyote numbers, if left unchecked, will likely continue to explode just like deer numbers did in the 60s and 70s. I've managed this same property for going on 20 years. Trapping is important to the management program and it will be continued. To do nothing is, in fact, a management decision with its own set of consequences.

Their was a study done own just this. I cant remember where. Either Texas or North or South Carolina. Its true, you MUST remove 70-75 % of the coyotes for 5 years OR you could make things WORST if you stop as you said after 3-4 years. Its just like this = IF you shoot a rifle in comps long enough YOU WILL have to re-barrel it. IF you plant a Greenfeild this year, their is some mantainace next year correct? If you work your roads this year AND it rains alot dont you have to work them again next year? Their are Pros and Cons of everything you do in life right??? So a predator management plan, is an exceptable expense for most. Just like putting out protein feeders,IF you want more , you must sometimes have to pay for it. Most higher-end game managers and property owners will agree that a Predator Program is worth the extra money AND worth figuring in to their management plan

Here�s another scenario which I posed in the other thread on does. Again, I don�t know this will for sure happen but just making an educated guess off of observed doe behavior��

If say you have a couple neighbors around you who are shooting does at a pretty decent rate�.then I believe that it�s very likely that many of the extra deer produced on your land due to predator trapping with simply move onto the neighbors property and fill in the holes left by the deer that they removed. I don�t believe that they will stay on your property and be pushed into very poor secondary bedding/fawning areas when much better locations are vacant. So are you paying a trapper in order to just be a deer factor for the neighbors? You can�t just make more prey but not provide them with more places to bed and raise young can you??

So just be cause YOU are against paying a trapper everyone should be?? Everyone has different needs and goals with Predator Management. IF YOU are a small land owner then hiring a trapper may not be practical to you. I agree that quailty fawn habitait is important. But if you can find someone to trap for you at the EXACT same time that fawns are dropping in your area, why not do it??? If you can afford it, why not help the deer? I personal think that the = Do nothing approach is why we have so many coyote today! But I see your point as well on quality fawn habitat. Predator Control is an individal choice. What works for the large land owner may not work for the small. Plus their is not = Silver Bullet of trapping. One size doesnt fit all. Ever manager must make his own descisions on Predator Control.

Here�s another question to pose��Will predator trapping on my property equate to me having more mature bucks living on my property? I think it would be easy for someone to say �Sure!�..More buck fawns being born equals more bucks on my property.� However, I don�t believe that is necessarily true. I think the number of bucks that take up residence on your property is far more defined by how things fall out during annual buck dispersal rather than being dictated by how many buck fawns are born on your property. You may have twice as many buck fawns born on your property next year due to trapping but what happens when its time for yearling bucks to disperse. The whole landscape resets itself from the standpoint of yearling buck distribution. Yearling bucks get on their feet and start looking for a new place to get in and fit in. What decides where these young bucks set up their new future home range?�..It will be where there are holes to be filled in the habitat where there are available resources and they're not being shown aggression from older doe groups. If your �hotel� of prime habitat is filled�.then where will most of these extra yearling bucks go to? How many will stop and set up shop on your property?

It is a simple equation (in my mind at least):

Create good habitat + feed the piss out of them + don't hunt your good areas until it is time + don't shoot does on your best buck killing spots = having mature deer.


Having said that, I do try my best to control predators on some of my property. Like shooters said, it damn sure don't hurt.

IF ITS a large enough property then the answer will be YES! Buck Disperseal on small propertys is something that is out of your control. BUT look at what you can control. Habitat, the age of bucks you kill, and A Predator Program IF you chose to do so. My question to you is = What could trapping, at fawn dropping time hurt??? You say you deer disperse to your neighbors, BUT many studies show mature bucks returning to their home property from which they were dispersed from. Yearling Buck disperseal is going to happen on small propertys, but trapping will help your OVER ALL area. I understand if 1s neighbors are not on the same page management wise how that could effect 1s hunting. I get it! But my question again is = What could timed Predator Control really hurt??? Besides 1s pocket book if he doesnt trap?

True for any legitimate management -- predators, bass in a pond, weeds in a field, deer that need thinning, weeds in the yard, trimming limbs on your fruit trees, whatever.

Effective management is an annual deal, not a quick-hit "trap a few yotes and we'll have more deer!" or "catch a few bass but don't catch all my babies!" situation. Effective management requires a commitment to year-round monitoring and work, for anything.

Trapping is a very costly effort. I�ve posed numerous questions that I would want to know the answer to before deciding to invest that kind of money in a long term trapping program. I would want to know what effects it has past just the first year or two and where the extra deer produced were going. I think we�ve done a few studies that show fawn recruitment increasing after predator removal and we�re jumping on the bandwagon without knowing any further impacts that may occur. I think probably the most important one to note is that removing all or most of the predators from a property is not just effecting the deer. As a result of removing the predators then you are artificially inflating most all prey species beyond the limits of what the current habitat can hide/produce�..mice, rabbits, etc�.The first year or two of trapping may be to remove the resident predator population but once your prey population is peaked out on the graph�..then future trapping efforts will be for the purpose of holding back the hoard of immigration from surrounding areas. Trying to hold back the hoard may very well be an even more costly effort than the initial trapping of resident predators. The moment predator trapping is ceased then I believe it�s inevitable for there to be a major boom in predator numbers on the property where trapping was conducted. I believe you will see the predator line on the graph climb steeply straight upwards in the next year or two following the cease in trapping followed by a major crash in the prey population. In other words, once you start�.then you can�t stop or you may end up worse off than if you had never trapped to begin with.

How much does it cost to get someone to trap on your property?

I�m sure it will vary depending on how folks charge but I believe the last time we had the yote trapping discussion it was determined to be around $100 per yote.

Why not let equilibrium be established in the ecosystem on its own?

Why trap anything? Pretty inhumane IMO.

Because that equilibrium might mean 10 coyotes to 1 deer and deer hunting wouldn't be very fun.

Nah.
Predator/ prey relationships dont work that way. It will always be a pyramid. Predators at the top, prey at the bottom.

To suggest the pyramid as inverted would mean the extinction of both the prey and the predator - and nature wont allow that.

Ok my example was too extreme. You pick the ratio. Coyotes, according to most, are taking too large a share of the deer population.

I guess i see it as just taking their share.

I have always hunted properties with unchecked coyote populations. The thing is on these properties there are still vibrant small game populations, often see rabbits, coons, possums, etc. And i never have a problem filling the freezer with deer and turkeys. I get my share too.

Im not being argumentative - if you want to spend your time trappping and spending money on it. Cool. I just dont see the cost/benefit. Nor does it sound like fun to me.

Im sure it helps the fawns to a degree. But you may also being helping the turkey nest raiders like coons and possums who will also benefit from your efforts.

And as said, you may also create a boom & bust cycle with further reaching consquences.