Well put ! I like that!

Yes . I read some of that nonsense, that has no bearing on coyotes and this rant on wanting them gone. I still will continue to trap and kill as many of them as i can. And you are the one that started the whole where playing god part, Just though you might like to know YOU are wrong. Ok continue on, i have nothing better to do to day that argue with you coyote lovers!!!

No sir I was referring to this article. http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/org_nws/NWSci%...g213%20Ogle.PDF What is nonsense about the article?

Just so everybody know I'm all for killing coyotes and just don't think it has nearly as much affect on the deer herd as y'all are arguing. Certainly not $100 a head

Thats not the one i was talking about. The one you posted about prey& predator that had grizzlys, lions,tigers, and galoags something. That one was the 1 I was talking about. like i have said many, many, many, many, times the 100 dollars coverd me driving 100 miles a day. I also said i have worked for= hunting rights and guns. My point was YOU can often work out a deal with a professional trapper!

Then why spend so much time arguing about it? Good grief, get a hobby or something? You are indeed fortunate (or completely ignorant) to not hunt in an area where coyotes make an impact, but in my view if they kill ONE SINGLE FAWN it's too many.

I am the only predator my lease needs to kill any deer.

I'm obviously missing the point here. Sorry for taking up y'all's time with scientific university backed studies. Next time I'll just say cause bubba told me. Y'all take the time to read this article http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/org_nws/NWSci%...g213%20Ogle.PDF
This is where some of my ideas are coming from. My other ideas just seem like common sense to me, but as Fred's tag line reads " you'd be surprised how hard simple is on folks" guess that describes me! I now know how 49er feels

one thing the study was done in washington state . deer population is kelp in check by weather up there because of the winters you will have more sick and weak . what is a limiting factor there is not true in the south .

the biggest flaw in yours and CNC thinking is you are taking hunters out of it . you know we like to kill deer too .

question is , do we want more deer to hunt or less deer to hunt ? you're not going to have more deer with coyotes left unchecked here in the south.

there were some studies posted earlier in this topic read those they were done in the south .

Frankie you were right I guess I was speaking in more general scientific terms not specific properties in Alabama. Listen y'all this is how I like my yotes. hell I even trap them a little Do I think its worth it to pay some one to do it for me? Absolutely not. Do I think a professional trapper will make a significant difference in your deer herd? No. Do I think that a coyote does a better job at natural selection than I do? Yes. Do I think coyotes do a better job of ensuring only the strongest of my deer herd survive than I do? Yes. Does I think that helps improve the genetics in my deer herd? Yes. Do I think more coyotes= more deer, and less coyotes=less deer? Yes. And before y'all freak out, meaning the more deer you have the more coyotes you can support. The less deer up have the less coyotes it can support. And finally do I completely understand why a cattlemen would hire a professional trapper? Yes.

Only thing im going to say is you need to close or tack well that J-link on those duke traps! And some Formula 1 or Full Metal Jacket will keep that trap from rusting!!

Thanks man. This has been kinda like a persuasive essay in school for me. Like the one where you get stuck with pro gun control. I may not actually believe some of the stuff I said but I feel like I did a pretty good job supporting my arguments with science. And actually now feel a lot better about my lack of trapping success cause I don't think it makes a big difference in how many deer I have.

Persussive essay? I think i had one of those steal my trap one time when i was in south alabama! In the early 90s when i hunted in Lee and Macon , if you shot a deer at dark, you better not wait to long to go get it. I shot a doe once, waited 4 hours and when i found the deer , it looked like buzzards on the Africa Savanna had eaten it whole! Those where the days when we saw up to 40 deer on an evening hunt. I glad you dont need coyote control at where ever you at. But unfortainately most people do.

just so you know, I'd give you a d- in this class. You have no idea what you are talking about.....

I'm sure glad you weren't my teacher then! What grade did you give these guys Dr. Kroll ?

yer problem is that you are just passing on others information without any personal knowledge of what in the hail yer talking about...

That is correct other than I regularly hunt on this property which is prob the best yote deer study ever done in this state. SNI Farms
Coyotes are def the number one predator of fawns, but is this predation bad for a deer herd? I cannot find anything where a healthy deer herd is drastically affected by coyote predation. In fact auburn university said that coyote predation is actually good in some areas. The only areas where coyotes affect the deer population is in areas of heavy doe harvest. It also states that after 6 months yote populations were already back to pre trapping levels. All of the studies I've read have been very inconclusive as to the affects of yotes on deer.
I'm also not looking at this through the glasses of a hunter(which might be why I don't understand y'all's side of the argument). I'm looking at this like a biologist would. Strictly looking at the relationship between predator and prey, and the effect this relationship has on both of their overall populations.

I don't know what else to do than to read scholarly publications to educate my self. Fred what is your educational back ground? Or is all your "knowledge" based on your work in law enforcement? Oh yeah which one of my comments are soo wrong. Can you give me an example so I can do some more research on the topic.

I'd also like some clarification on your comment that which fawns get eaten are completely lotto random, but then you say the fawns with older mothers have a better chance of not getting eaten. How can both of these be true?

Dude, thats a lot of reading! I have been out of school for 25 years. I just skipped to the charts.50 % increase between pre trapping and post trapping? I will take 50% more fawns any day!

Yeah it is a lot of reading, but you've got to do more than look at the pictures to understand the overall conclusions of the study. Plus when I've got everyone calling me a dumb arse, I try to educate my self so that I'm not a dumb arse anymore. Plus I've learned to believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. So sorry that I don't take y'all's word as 100% truth. I do believe the studies I've read that have been done by dr's at universities. None of what I've said has been my personal opinion. So when your calling me a dumb arse your calling the folks at UGA, Auburn, and Washinton State dumb arses.

Also I wanted to tell you the your persuasive essay comment was hilarious made me lol.

I likes the pictures! I dont remember calling YOU a dumb ass! Maybe a coyote lover! Could have called CNC a dumb ass though! Honestly its getting hard to remember! Nothing in life is 100%. I think a study done in the 70-80 might not me accurate/apply today.A study done in another state might no apply to yours/ or my situation. A study done in north alabama might be different than 1 done in south alabama. But i do think that truthfully lots of the state of ALABAMA has a coyote problem.