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Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: 49er] #91046
02/11/11 07:52 AM
02/11/11 07:52 AM
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To 49er,
The man was there to hunt by his own admission and actions. He never denied being there to hunt. If he was indeed standing on the R/R on Perdido wma at the north end when contacted as Bucky said he was then he was 3/10 of a mile from his vehicle, not 100 yards as he said before. He admitted to hunting why would you have to prove that someone is hunting when they admit to hunting. Bucky simply tried to say that he was not hunting at the time the GWs saw him. The GWs disagreed with him and so did the court. That isn't an infringement on his rights nor is it extortion.

"a pliant and fertile text of misrepresentation of my political principles." - Thomas Jefferson

"What's your name girl? Sally...hmm, how long you been working for me? Why don't come see me up at the big house after dinner and bring a jug of that corn squeezins" - Thomas Jefferson (well he could have said it.)

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Eutaw] #91427
02/11/11 06:35 PM
02/11/11 06:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,367
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Online Mad
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alabama
Originally Posted By: Eutaw
Originally Posted By: BhamFred
I've seen it plenty of times...

I checked one of the worst poachers in Greene Co a week after deer season ended, sitting in a shooting house on a greenfield with a 264WM...said he was coyote hunting. I said OK, have fun. But I kept a closer eye on him. In that situation I would wait for further evidence of DEER hunting...like a dead deer....

Wasn't hard to show he was HUNTING, just not exactly what he was hunting.

Fella is waist deep in a pond, wearing waders, blowing a duck call, shotgun loaded with #4s...he's probably duck hunting....

you wouldn't be hunting coyotes over corn ...would ya??? grin

troy


Don't be so hard on Sammy grin


you know my buddy Sammy?? Didn't take long to figger that one out LOL

troy


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Patriot] #91429
02/11/11 06:37 PM
02/11/11 06:37 PM
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Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
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Originally Posted By: Patriot
To Outback,
Nope, I got it.
His presumption of innocence was removed when a witness provided evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, that there existed a proof of guilt.
Bong

Did I miss something?
The guy was walking down (or across) a R/R track, on the way to his truck. The only Witness was Officer Chris Nix.

If it happened that way, the charge was bogus.
Wearing camo and carrying a rifle does not mean he was "hunting" from the R/R tracks.
The judge claiming the AG's opinion irrelevant is BullSchit!
The AG opinion was specifically applicable in this case.

I also happen to know and respect Chris Nix. He's an intelligent and energetic kid with good old fashion common sense. Like any of us, though, he can be wrong sometimes.
I figure it's like this;
A) There's more to the story than we've heard here.
B) Chris misinterpreted the intent of the law and made a mistake.

If it is illegal to wear camo and carry a gun across R/R tracks, then there's about 8,000 acres of the Lowndes WMA that is simply not accessible to hunters.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #91452
02/11/11 07:16 PM
02/11/11 07:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
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alabama
BhamFred Online mad
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Online Mad
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odd that every single judge I worked before and every single GW I worked with don't agree with the AGs opinion.......just sayin...

troy


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: BhamFred] #91458
02/11/11 07:32 PM
02/11/11 07:32 PM
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Warrior River Country
49er Offline
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I think it's a mistake to rely on the AG opinion too. The courts do call AG opinions persuasive, but when they are wrong, they are not binding.

I think the AG opinion is wrong. The law does not say hunt and discharge a firearm. It says hunt or discharge a firearm. The use of the word or means that either action is prohibited separately.

Bucky's defense should be based on the absence of evidence that either of the two actions were occurring when the officer observed him. He was walking to his truck with a firearm that had an empty chamber and scope covers were on the lenses of his scope.

Edit: Although the AG states that he was informing the judge who requested his opinion of the interpretation by the DCNR, it was his choice to give his own opinion as well. He should have known that the interpretation of the DCNR was wrong since it did not reflect the plain language of the statute in question.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #91469
02/11/11 07:47 PM
02/11/11 07:47 PM
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alabama
BhamFred Online mad
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BhamFred  Online Mad
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so Outback, ya see a fella driving down the road, spotlight out the window, gun laying on the front seat...loaded....no shot fired...he isn't night hunting???

troy


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: BhamFred] #91563
02/11/11 09:59 PM
02/11/11 09:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,539
orange beach alabama
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fairwater Offline
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Originally Posted By: BhamFred
so Outback, ya see a fella driving down the road, spotlight out the window, gun laying on the front seat...loaded....no shot fired...he isn't night hunting???

troy


But what if he gets stopped at a letls say check point and he has a spot light in his truck and loaded gun is he night hunting?


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Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: fairwater] #91577
02/11/11 10:17 PM
02/11/11 10:17 PM
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Warrior River Country
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Here's some case law on that subject if you are interested:

Quote:
COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS OF ALABAMA

January 7, 1986

ROGERS
v.
STATE

... Other jurisdictions have designated the elements. In Florida:

"The displaying or use of a light in a place where deer might be found, and in a manner capable of disclosing the presence of deer together with the possession of firearms or other weapons customarily used for the taking of deer, between one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise, should be prima facie evidence of intent to violate the provisions of [this Act]." Fla. Statutes § 372.99(2) (1983).

The Washington Supreme Court held that:

"When the state has produced evidence that a defendant has an artificial light and a rifle or other firearm in his possession after sunset in any wooded section or other place where deer or other animals mentioned in the statute may reasonably be expected, the state has then proven a prima facie case of violation of the statute, which requires that the case be submitted to the jury." State v. Person, 56 Wash. 2d 283, 288, 352 P.2d 189, 192 (1960).

Maine has ruled that:

"There are certain elements necessary to night hunting. It must be night time as distinguished from daytime, and within the times set by statue, there must be present and available certain instrumentalities, that is, a light, a gun and ammunition and back of this a purpose to search, find and possess the animal.

". . . . Intent or purpose is evidenced by the acts of the offender." State v. Allen, 151 Me. 486, 489, 121 A.2d 342, 344 (1956).

We find, based upon the language of § 9-11-235, Code of Alabama 1975, that a prima facie case for night hunting is established when the state demonstrates that the accused (1) is in an area which deer or other protected animals are thought to frequent, (2) has in his possession a light, and (3) has in his possession a weapon or other device suitable for taking, capturing, or killing an animal protected by state law, (4) at night.

The appellant was discovered after dark in an area inhabited by deer, having in his possession a rifle. We also find it reasonable to conclude that the headlight of a motorcycle is suitable for "shining" deer, since it can easily be aimed. The fact that he raced to his house and began to remove his clothing in an apparent effort to make it appear he had not been out of his house is additional evidence of guilty intent.

We find the evidence abundant to support the adjudication.






Quote:
PRIMA-FACIE, EVIDENCE, CASE
Latin for "at first view."

Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted.

quoting from:
website link

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: 49er] #91633
02/11/11 11:51 PM
02/11/11 11:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,539
orange beach alabama
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fairwater Offline
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So by the rules on night hunting im ok with my generation 3 night vision, hence there is no light used.


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Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: BhamFred] #91699
02/12/11 07:40 AM
02/12/11 07:40 AM
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Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
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Originally Posted By: BhamFred
so Outback, ya see a fella driving down the road, spotlight out the window, gun laying on the front seat...loaded....no shot fired...he isn't night hunting???

troy


Let's try one that would be more appropriate to THIS case.
Let say, a public roads splits my private land.
I'm carrying a spotlight and a loaded gun while checking on my cattle, at night.
(something I have done many many times)
I drive across the public road, with my spotlight & my gun, to access the other 1/2 of my private land.
Am I guilty of night hunting?


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Out back] #91700
02/12/11 07:41 AM
02/12/11 07:41 AM
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To Outback,
flamma fumo est proxima- This is Latin and it means (Where there is smoke there is fire) Yes you did miss something. Maybe it is my fault for not being clear enough and if so I would like to clarify myself now.
I heard the testimony and 2 (two) Gw's saw the defendant standing (not walking) on the R/R (privately owned) (9-11-257) track. 10 (Ten)- 15 (fifteen) minutes later when the GW's had made their way to the defendant he was standing in approx. the same place.

I present this and all other matters and evidence pertaining to it sine praejudicio.
The AG's opinion is gratis dictum.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Patriot] #91703
02/12/11 07:47 AM
02/12/11 07:47 AM
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Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
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Originally Posted By: Patriot
To Outback,
Yes you did miss something. Maybe it is my fault for not being clear enough and if so I would like to clarify myself now.
I heard the testimony and 2 (two) Gw's saw the defendant standing (not walking) on the R/R (privately owned) (9-11-257) track. 10 (Ten)- 15 (fifteen) minutes later when the GW's had made their way to the defendant he was standing in approx. the same place.



Shazzaam! ... FINALLY!
That is the "more to the story" I was looking for.
It just did not make sense, to me, that you could deem a man "hunting" for simply dressing like a hunter.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Out back] #91719
02/12/11 08:07 AM
02/12/11 08:07 AM
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To Bucky,
Thanks for the head banging.
In the Navy AW's were referred to as A** Whisperers.
Just kidding, can't wait to hear what AW's called OS's.
Don't forget your 10 foot stop.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Patriot] #91726
02/12/11 08:16 AM
02/12/11 08:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
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Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
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Originally Posted By: Patriot
To Bucky,
Thanks for the head banging.
In the Navy AW's were referred to as A** Whisperers.
Just kidding, can't wait to hear what AW's called OS's.


I don't remember most of the squid rates.
The Marines took better care of me than the Navy.
CE1 (SCW) Outback smile


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #91735
02/12/11 08:23 AM
02/12/11 08:23 AM
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Let me help you remember'
"You go girl!"
OS1 Patriot

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #91737
02/12/11 08:27 AM
02/12/11 08:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,367
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
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BhamFred  Online Mad
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alabama
the law specifially exempts someone checking on his cattle.....no spotlighting..


by your idea, no discharge=no hunting.....


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Out back] #91865
02/12/11 12:51 PM
02/12/11 12:51 PM
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St. Clair, Alabama
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Bucky205 Offline OP
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The GW's actually stated that they were crossing the railroad in their vehicle when they observed me standing on the track several 100 yards away. If you look at the map that observation point had to be close to a mile away. When they came up on the track they came up approx 100 yards behind me and I stopped and waited on them. Just before they reached me they had to cross a trestle over a stream. That trestle indicates exactly where I was and headed north. I was leas than 100 yards from the end of the management area. I do not deny that I was walking slow, looking or stooping to rest, none of that is illegal. Looking for a place to hunt is not illegal. If I would have crawled down the railroad track or stretched out and took a nap there, it still would not have been against Alabama law. Chris also stated that in the whole time observed I never touched the rifle. I will even agree to take a polygraph at my expense as to what I was doing on the track. If I am lying I will pay twice the penalties, if I am not, reprimand the officers for being over zealous in their citations and give me my money back. As well, I think I have enough evidence to prove my innocence before a jury. My GPS tracks my position and also records date time I never even brought it up because I was naive enough to believe that if you simply told the truth in court you stood a chance. I am also not naive enough to post my defense here.


By the way, the correct definition of AW is Aviation Wonderful,
and concerning civilian law enforcement, they have been guarding Navy gates for years. They must be doing a good job. We have never had one stolen.


"There are no easy days, not even yesterday"
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #91878
02/12/11 01:18 PM
02/12/11 01:18 PM
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Thomasville, AL
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Methinks that you are guilty as charged and are trying to wiggle out on a technicality.

Sorry, just the impression I am getting!! smile

But, unless there is even MORE to the story....I think that losing your hunting privileges for 1 year over this is excessive.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #91882
02/12/11 01:27 PM
02/12/11 01:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
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Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
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It can be confusing, but the loss of hunting rights is applicable for a 1st offense. You have to pay attention to the comma.

... "Shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be fined no less than $$$, upon 1st offense, no less than $$$$, upon 2nd offense, (COMMA) and loss of hunting rights for 1 year".

Not saying it's just or fair, just saying.

Last edited by Out back; 02/12/11 01:27 PM.

My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #91890
02/12/11 01:59 PM
02/12/11 01:59 PM
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Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
bill Offline
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Anybody else think Patriot may be more impressed with himself than others are? Anytime you say something and then have to interpret your own statement your a little full of yourself.


"Political debate: when charlatans come together to discuss their principles"
-
Bauvard
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