It's amazing, while reading these posts, that everyone wants to blame the gun or the ammo. Nobody wants to own up to making a bad shot. There's not a rifle or ammo made for deer hunting that wont kill deer everytime, if you make a good shot. Shoot the deer thru both lungs and he will die, and most of the time he drops right there. A 7mag is a fine gun, and is an excellent choice for whitetails. You only have delayed expansion, if that's the type bullet you are shooting. Bullets designed for whitetail hunting are rapid expansion. Winchester silver ballistic tips come with different xp bullets. Xp2 is for deer, xp3 are for elk, and so on. Not a big fan of ballistic tips, they kill deer, but if you do make a borderline shot, sometimes, there's not much of a blood trail. BTW, don't confuse polymer tipped bullets with ballistic tips. Just because a bullet has a polymer tip, doesn't make it a ballistic tip.

I don't think anyone disagrees that a good shot equals a dead deer. I think the discussion here is about what gives you the best chance at recovery. Sometimes you make a good shot and you don't have a good blood trail and the deer travels a great distance, thusreducing your chance at recovery. Also, if heaven forbid, any of us are ever the first one's to ever make a bad shot on a deer, I still want to up my chances on that deer dying, and me being able to recover it. I have put good hits on deer they were plenty dead when I found them, but they left little blood and went to freakin' far. I would like for this to happen less if I can, because not recovering a deer is a horrible feeling, regardless of it's size. I think the 7mag is a fine gun as well, but I have found some issues shooting deer at close range, other than my shot placement at 20 yards. This board is awesome because you can immediately benefit from the experience of hundreds of other seasoned hunters and shooters. I think everyone was addressing the topic, not necessarily just blaming a gun.

I've made bad shots before and still recovered deer. I have never made a good shot on a deer and had a hard time finding blood. If you hit a deer behind the front shoulder with a rapid expanding bullet, there will be blood, and there will be a pass thru 99% of the time, unless your using a ballistic tip.Maybe i'm just lucky. To me good shot, equals dead deer with good blood trail. If you don't have that, maybe it wasn't a good shot. I understand shooting a deer with an arrow, and sometimes they don't bleed very good, but when i've found those deer, i notice, it wasn't as a good of a shot as i thought. I use a .300 Win mag, and my son used a 7mag(before someone stole it), and we have never noticed a difference between a deer shot at 20 yards, versus 200 yards. I'm no bullet expert, but i do believe bullets are designed to expand when they hit something, no matter if it's 20 or 100 yards away.

one of my pet peeves is the statement that it's all about bullet placement....

I'll agree that proper placement is the most important aspect of KILLING a deer but one still has to put a properly constructed bullet into the right spot. and it has to be the right cartridge designed for that target animal.

I like hunting with my 375H&H some but it is NOT a good choice for Al deer killing, lots of penetration and minimum bullet expansion mean one has to be precise in bullet PLACEMENT. Even then it does not kill as well as any 270 with 130gr bullets.

Same problem, different direction, with a small calibre gun with varmint bullets. I have seen them explode on contact with bone and completely fail to penetrate. Properly placed but very improper penetration means wounded deer. Poor bullet choice will not always kill even with good placement.

On meat deer I always aim just touching back of shoulder, thru ribs for lungs...not to waste any meat. After all I am shooting for meat.

On trophy bucks I aim mid shoulder to drop em on the spot. I am less concerned with meat damage here.

Ya'll knock em out....

Fred, i completelty agree. I wasn't saying bullet placement, even with the wrong bullet would get the job done, satifactorily. If you'll look back at my post, i said with a rapid expanding bullet. Your bullets should be designed for whitetail deer, rapid expansion. Bullets for heavier game, have delayed expansion and IMO, should not be used on deer. I too, like the double shoulder shot to drop bucks in their tracks.

I'm not sure what the point is? It doesn't change the fact that I have had some issues since changing rifles. I'm very confident in my shots. If you want to believe the issue is simply that I'm making bad shots, then ...okay. I respectfully disagree. So, I'm on a message board looking for answers, and I've found some things that can only help.

Didn't mean to strike a nerve. All i'm saying is, i know a lot of people that use that caliber gun with no issues, like yours. There has to be an easy explanation. It can only be one of two things: Bullet placement, or bullet selection. Sounds like you just need to use your 30-30 when hunting in area's that you can't see far, and use the 7 mag for those long shots. Good hunting.

Yes, but bullets perform differently at different ranges. A bt from a magnum caliber will likely epode at very short range. However, at say 300 yards, it has lost enough velocity that it still expands properly, yet holds together to penetrate well. A bullet like an Accubond performs well at short to the long end of medium range, but if it loses to much velocity at extremely long range it may not expand properly. I have personally had the bt blow up episode happen 5 times (300wsm). It has never happened from my 270. Why? The difference in velocity at various ranges. Another factor ppl dont take into consideration is SD. A 150 gr bullet in .30 cal is more fragile than a 150 grn .270 bullet. This will also dictate bullet performance as well as design.

Shot placement is the most critical factor, but like stated above the right tool for the job must be used. I don't know much about golf, but I know you don't put with a driver.

So do you keep different bullets in your bag and pull one out depending on how far the deer is?

No. I use a 270 most of the time with 140 gr Nosler Accubonds. It has performed very well from 40 to 200 yards. I used to have access to some larger fields and cutovers. I would use a weatherby 270 wsm. Performed very well out to 325 yards( my longest kill) also with 140 gr accubonds. Occasionally I use a light compact 7-08 rifle with a 4x scope. Sighted dead on at 100 yards. I don't expect to get a long shot because of where I hunt with it. 139gr sst is what I use in it. I have only killed one deer with it. A quartering shot that penetrated the length of her body from the corner of the leading shoulder and exited the off side hip.

I pick my gun and loads according to where I plan to hunt and in what conditions( cover and shot distance). It has worked well for me and I will continue to do so.

I use one rifle and one bullet. The rifle fits like a glove because i've used it for 15 years, everytime i've hunted with a rifle.IMO, this is very important. My cousin uses 2-3 rifles and he seems to miss at least one a year. I shoot Hornady SST in 165 grain .300win mag. 200 yard zero. Killed them at 10 yards, hit the ground like you hit them in the head with a sledge hammer, and have killed them at 300 yards with the same outcome.

There's a reason you can always find a 7mag in the classifieds.

Probably because it is the third most popular caliber in the US for hunting, right behind the .270 and the 30.06.

The only one I owned was a ruger m77 with a laminated stock. With Scope I think it weighed a little over 9 pounds. Recoil was no worse on it than many 30.06 I've
shot. I've heard several people complain about recoil and I
may not have liked a lighter gun near as much but I'm
not really recoil sensitive, anyway. I wish I had never sold mine.

Concur, there's always a 270 or aught six for sale too somewhere.


the reality is alot of people cant shoot a magnum rifle well, if I couldn't Id get rid of it. Hell some people cant shoot a 243 well enough to be in the woods but they are there.

Winchester powermax bonded hollow point.Most devastating bullet I have ever used short or long range.If they do run which is rare.You will find a blood trail resembling the Texas Chainsaw massacre

More 7mags than .308s and thurdy thurdys ?

[/quote] I'm so over I've gotta have the biggest rifle in the woods as I've gotten older but to each his on. [/quote]

I feel the same way. I bought my son a H&R single shot .243 and be dang if that ain't my favorite go to gun. Perfect size for toting through the woods and climbing trees. Even sit a few houses every so often with it. Killed 7 (does) last season and 2 so far this season. Meat is all I'm after anyway but like you said to each his own.

I could tell you several stories about deer that I shot with a 7 mag that ran waaaay too far, but I'll just provide the details of the last couple I shot before I bought a 30-06.

I use to lease a place that was mostly open fields surrounded by a 10 year old clear cut. There was no wooded place to hunt on the farm so I had to hunt field. I was sitting on a green field one morning and shot a doe. She was about 75 yards away. I shot her square in the shoulder. She ran. I got down and went to where she was standing. Hair on the ground but no blood. I saw where she ran so I started walking that direction. I found her in a drainage ditch 75-100 yards from where I shot her. 7mm entrance hole, 7 mm exit hole. Shot directly through and exited through both shoulder. Never saw one drop of blood.

I shot a buck that was quartering hard towards me. Nice 8 point. I was gonna shoot him in the base of the neck and drop him in his tracks. I shot he ran towards me and passed me. I walked to where I shot him. No blood. I walked to where I saw him go in the woods. No blood. I started circling and found him. He had run 100-125 yards from where I shot him. The bullet entered his neck. When I started skinning him out I found the exit hole. It was about 2" below his bung hole. The bullet went right between his hindquarters, evenly enough that both hindquarters had a red streak where the bullet passed. The exit hole was bullet the same diameter as the bullet was when it left the barrel.

Both of those deer were shot with Hornady 139 grain BTSP's.

I just remembered a bullet blowing up story. 3 or 4 years ago I borrowed my brother in laws Remington model 700 .308 to hunt on Thanksgiving morning. I hunted a greenfield way back in a thick area surrounded by some 10 year old pine plantation. I was needing some meat and this club was highly pressured so I figured to sit till around 11. About 10:30 I had a big doe come out about 40 yards. I waited till she was broadside and put it high on her shoulder and dropped her. Within a couple seconds she got back to her feet and ran off. Myself, brother and bil looked for about an hour and a half with no sign at all except for a big pile of hair. I know the ammo was corlokt but not sure of grain. I think 168 but not positive. About 2 months later I'm hunting the same field one afternoon and out she comes with a big bald spot right on her shoulder but no limp and no other damage. I guess I should have aimed behind the shoulder at that range but it just goes to show it can happen with other calibers, too.

Fur, tc is gonna get on you for saying you shot a deer with a sebbin maggggg and it didn't mushroom.