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Iso
by AustinC. 05/21/24 05:01 PM
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: Clem]
#682561
09/18/13 01:23 PM
09/18/13 01:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
CPiper
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
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I spent alot of time phone calling, emailing and even face-to-face with SC's deer and turkey project supervisor. He's a good guy.  One of The Best!!!! Iv never met a state employee (of any state) that was more willing to stop what he was doing to talk to someone. He is a GEM of a Human-Being! Smart. Kind. Very willing to share his wealth of knowledge with a plain ole common hunter.
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: CPiper]
#682563
09/18/13 01:24 PM
09/18/13 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,849
Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,849
Boxes Cove
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Shock and awe. I do believe that's the best rebuttal to a 49er cut-n-paste rant I've ever seen on here. But he'll keep coming and wear you down.
Last edited by 2Dogs; 09/18/13 01:26 PM.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: CPiper]
#682577
09/18/13 01:34 PM
09/18/13 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,093
Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,093
Awbarn, AL
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Back to the original topic .....
Do live density rates and harvest rates have any relationship?
Not really. It depends a lot on the type of habitat being hunted as well as the amount of available food for a given year.
Last edited by CNC; 09/18/13 01:35 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: mike35549]
#682579
09/18/13 01:34 PM
09/18/13 01:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
CPiper
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
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Cleetus: Hey Bubba! I heard you went deer huntin this morning, did ya get one?
Bubba: Hey Cleetus! Yep sir, I did. I got a good-un. It weighted 197 pounds, had 17 points and a 22" spread.
Cleetus: WOW, that IS a good-un ..... where did you .......
Interrupted by 49er: Hey! Hey! I am here now, so ya'll will have to shut up about that stuff. I dont like it. Have you read the State's Constitution to see what The Commissioner said at the last Board Meeting?
Cleetus: Who the ......?
Bubba: What the .....?
49er: It is Me. The Almighty One who tells you what you can and cant say, write, post on the internet, text or even think when it comes to anything in the Soverign State of Alabama, but particularly, when it comes to MY deer. Did one of ya'll shoot my deer? ALL of the deer in The Soverign State of Alabama are my deer, so hands off.
Cleetus: What the ..... ?
Bubba: Who the .... ?
49er: Here, hold this (hand each a piece of paper). This is a manuscript of the States Constitution, and what was said at the last meeting between someone I dont like and someone else. Read It. Study It. Until you understand it as well as I do, AND interpret it JUST like I do, you cannot go hunting, talk about hunting, or even think about hunting.
Bubba: Well, I guess so, Yes Sir .... What the ...... ?
Cleetus: Ah, Yes Sir, what he said ..... Who the ..... ?
Last edited by CPiper; 09/18/13 01:40 PM.
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: CPiper]
#682595
09/18/13 01:43 PM
09/18/13 01:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,849
Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,849
Boxes Cove
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I'm speechless, cause I'm too busy laughin'.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: CPiper]
#682622
09/18/13 02:10 PM
09/18/13 02:10 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
BSK
12 point
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12 point
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
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Do not take it out on me if you are upset and disillusioned with the politics in The Soverign State of Alabama.
But it's in 49er's job description...
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: mike35549]
#682760
09/18/13 03:38 PM
09/18/13 03:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
CPiper
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
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Notice that 49er did not attempt to answer the questions concerning deer harvests and deer populations.
Tell us 49er, I mean type it out, without the personal jabs - what relationship do harvest rates and populations have?
Tell us 49er, I mean, really type it out, without the silly goofy remarks that have nothing to do with anything - the deer and turkey in the Soverign State of Alabama belong to who? The Land Owner? The State? The People, ALL of the people, of the Soverign State of Alabama?
And while we are at it, where have I suggested that The Soverign State of Alabama needed to mandate anything? Reply with a quote.
I dare you, double dog dare you, triple toad dare you, to answer these questions. Id bet the farm you can NOT do it.
BTW, take none of this personal. It is not. It is just fun to jab at someone who likes to jab. I can dish it out, and I can take it. Hope you can!
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: CPiper]
#682789
09/18/13 03:58 PM
09/18/13 03:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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Question: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. Notice that 49er did not attempt to answer the questions concerning deer harvests and deer populations.
I guess maybe my attempts went right over your informed and educated head. [I edited the personal jabs out, OK?] The answer to the original question in this thread is quite obvious. The decline in the state deer harvest is due in large part to protection of coyotes and hogs as protected animals while prohibiting dog hunting and non-qdm hunting. The restrictions that were added during the past 8 years are destroying what we spent 75 years building.
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: CPiper]
#682804
09/18/13 04:03 PM
09/18/13 04:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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Tell us 49er, I mean type it out, without the personal jabs - what relationship do harvest rates and populations have? There's no simple answer to your question. It's very site specific... near impossible if not impossible on a statewide basis. On a given tract, all the numerous variables would have to be KNOWN and taken into consideration in order to determine exactly what the true relationship the number of deer killed has to the overall population.
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: 49er]
#682809
09/18/13 04:07 PM
09/18/13 04:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,849
Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,849
Boxes Cove
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I do believe 9er is making a case for "the state" to gather data so the question may be answered.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: mike35549]
#682820
09/18/13 04:12 PM
09/18/13 04:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
CPiper
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
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There we go! Great!
So, you are a dog hunting proponent??
Are you opposed to QDM? A state mandated QDM harvest policy?
For the record, FYI, I too am against a state mandated QDM or TROPHY or ANTLER RESTRICTION rules and regs.
I can understand the need for the state to regulate dates and limits, and do not have a problem with this, but to tell me the only buck(s) I can shoot have to be 150 pounds and/or have a 15" spread, Bah-Hum-Bug!
Im not sure I follow you, but I am trying. So, the HARVEST has declined because hogs and coyotes are protected? How are they protected? How does protecting those 2 species impact hunters killing deer?
I am being serious, not being funny. I don't follow..
I can understand that some sorts of QDM restrictions, antler restrictions, lower buck limit, lower buck limit with antler restrictions, and such can influence harvest rates, but decrease it 30%+ is drastic!
Could there simply be fewer deer?
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: CPiper]
#682821
09/18/13 04:13 PM
09/18/13 04:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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Tell us 49er, I mean, really type it out, without the silly goofy remarks that have nothing to do with anything - the deer and turkey in the Soverign State of Alabama belong to who? The Land Owner? The State? The People, ALL of the people, of the Soverign State of Alabama? God gave game and fish to every human He created.[See Genesis Chapters 1 and 9] That includes me. That's why the people of our state recognizes hunting and fishing as a God-given right that is protected in our state constitution. The US Supreme Court in District of Columbia v Heller indicated that hunting is a part of our right to bear arms that is protected in the 2nd Amendment to our federal constitution. The Code of Alabama 1975 declares that the game and fish of our state is held in trust for the people of this state. Every single citizen in Alabama holds title to the game and fish here. The state holds title for the purpose of regulating Section 9-11-230
Title to wild birds and animals vested in state.
The title and ownership to all wild birds and wild animals in the State of Alabama or within the territorial jurisdiction of the state are vested in the state for the purpose of regulating the use and disposition of the same in accordance with the laws of the state.
(Acts 1935, No. 383, p. 813, §1; Code 1940, T. 8, §82.) Who is THE STATE: Constitution of Alabama 1901SECTION 2
People source of power.
That all political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit; and that, therefore, they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to change their form of government in such manner as they may deem expedient.
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: 49er]
#682832
09/18/13 04:21 PM
09/18/13 04:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
CPiper
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
The Woods
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Tell us 49er, I mean, really type it out, without the silly goofy remarks that have nothing to do with anything - the deer and turkey in the Soverign State of Alabama belong to who? The Land Owner? The State? The People, ALL of the people, of the Soverign State of Alabama? God gave game and fish to every human He created.[See Genesis Chapters 1 and 9] That includes me. That's why the people of our state recognizes hunting and fishing as a God-given right that is protected in our state constitution. The US Supreme Court in District of Columbia v Heller indicated that hunting is a part of our right to bear arms that is protected in the 2nd Amendment to our federal constitution. The Code of Alabama 1975 declares that the game and fish of our state is held in trust for the people of this state. Every single citizen in Alabama holds title to the game and fish here. The state holds title for the purpose of regulating Section 9-11-230
Title to wild birds and animals vested in state.
The title and ownership to all wild birds and wild animals in the State of Alabama or within the territorial jurisdiction of the state are vested in the state for the purpose of regulating the use and disposition of the same in accordance with the laws of the state.
(Acts 1935, No. 383, p. 813, §1; Code 1940, T. 8, §82.) Who is THE STATE: Constitution of Alabama 1901SECTION 2
People source of power.
That all political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit; and that, therefore, they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to change their form of government in such manner as they may deem expedient.
I know all of that. I knew all of that. Just wanted to make sure for my sake you were aware. I could not tell if you were one of those "The deer on my land are my deer" types. Im off to bed. 4am comes too early. WIll pick this up again tomorrow eve. Looking forward to chattin with you 49er!
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: CPiper]
#682838
09/18/13 04:22 PM
09/18/13 04:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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And while we are at it, where have I suggested that The Soverign State of Alabama needed to mandate anything? Reply with a quote. I interpreted your words to suggest that you support a mandated check system for all hunters statewide. Here's your quote: Page 4 of this thread: I grew up in Mobile. I left Mobile at age 19. I just got back. I spent the last 30 years in South Carolina.
I am AMAZED at the changes!!! From the growth of Baldwin County to the rules and regs regarding fish and wildlife.
The cost to lease land - WOW!!!
Who done this? Hunters? Non Hunters?
Land got expensive because hunters were/are willing to pay, so we have to blame ourselves.
One thing I do not (NOT!!) understand is how the state does not know what the deer densities and/or the harvest densities are across the state.
I called and asked. I sent emails. I stopped by a district office and asked.
I did get a good response from someone out of Montgomery, who sent me a density map for deer and turkey from 05 and 06.
Good information! But, hardly up to date.
What about the harvest densities? How many deer are being killed per sq mile, per county?
I see the info on the state's web site, but who in the world measures and records HARVEST info by number of man days spent to kill a deer??? Id rather know how many deer were being killed per sq mile. If hunters knew how many deer their were per sq mile (live) and what the harvest rate was, WE hunters would have a better idea of what WE needed to do, or not do.
I personally dont want emotion, based on what individual hunters want for themself or their hunting club. To manage deer and turkey you have to have hard core factual data, stats and figures. You have to know how many deer you have, and then have a harvest plan to ensure the resource is not taken advantage of, and to keep their number in check (REAL management).
And I am not referring to QDM and/or BIG antlers. States regulate wild game to control populations, not to grow big antlers. I am ALL for a BUCK limit to help manage the deer. When I was a kid here in AL, it was a buck a day, every day, for the entire season - that is CrAzY - that is NOT wildlife management.
Iv read here that some say the state is saying the overall deer herd has grown in AL. I spoke to a regional biologist last week and asked this question: "Would you say that the overall deer density has decreased in Alabama over the last 5-8 years?".
He answered "Yes".
So now I am ...... ??? ??? ???
Both SC and GA have seen a 30% decrease (on avg) in the states overall deer herd in the past decade. Changes in habitat, changes in timber practices, coyotes, QDM (shoot the does, shoot the does, shoot the does ...) have all been contributing factors.
SO, has the overall number of deer in AL increased or decreased in the past 3, 4, 5 years???
Another question ..... Why the BIG difference in the number of days allowed to harvest UNantlered deer between public and private land??????
WOW!! If my math serves me correctly, there is something like 12 days for public land, and 70 for private land. What the ......????
Did I read and count that correctly????
Does the state know what the sex ratio is in the state (LOL!!)???
This could open a can of worms!!
Male to Female Ratio??
Do they know what % of the buck harvest is made up of 1.5, 2.5, 3.5 year old bucks? Anyone know? I do not see this info anywhere. Anyone have any ideas?
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years.
[Re: CPiper]
#682841
09/18/13 04:24 PM
09/18/13 04:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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I dare you, double dog dare you, triple toad dare you, to answer these questions. Id bet the farm you can NOT do it.
BTW, take none of this personal. It is not. It is just fun to jab at someone who likes to jab. I can dish it out, and I can take it. Hope you can! Just send me the title to the farm. That's as personal as I will let it get.
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