OK 49er, I will bite this one time. I am dumb. I am stupid. I am asking YOU to enlighten me, to educate me.
Questions #1. How does the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources gather the info to determine the number of man days it requires to harvest a deer, hog or turkey on WMA land?
Question #2. What is the deer density of .... (pick a county) ... Clarke County, Alabama?
Question #3. What is the harvest rate of .... (pick a county) .... Clarke County, Alabama.
Question #4. What is the sex ratio of Alabama's deer herd?
Question #5. What did the 300 pound canary say to the cat?
And, a person becomes educated and informed by asking questions. DUH!

BSK: I am pretty sure that is you. Iv used mine for 15 years too. You remember?

States do not manage deer to produce B&C deer, or trophy deer, or to help land owners increase value of their land. States manage deer for 1 reason - population control. By hunter's opinion, some states do a better job of managing deer than others. Anything hunters get in the way of BIG antlers is The Cherry On Top!
Every talks about how well Iowa manages their deer. Iowa manages their deer for population control, just like Alabama, or Georgia.
Id say the only state that does not fit this to a T is Texas. The land owners manage the deer in many places, so it is not apples to apples.
But as BSK pointed out, the MidWest has things the SouthEast does not; VERY fertile soil, SHORT gun seasons, SMALL buck limits, a Gazillion Million tons of nutrition that is grown in that VERY fertile soil, a different subspecies of deer then what we have in the SouthEast ...... and more.
I am GLAD to see Alabama went to a 3 buck limit. Buck Deer are not an infinite resource. All natural renewable resources have to be managed to ensure their future. The deer cant do it, they just aint smart enough. But, the deer are the easy part to manage. The human-beans are the tough ones to manage!

TrueDouble: Liberal Limits and Long Gun Seasons do help drive lease costs. But from my experience the biggest driving force is BIG antlers.
For Example: South Carolina has a gun season that is 4.5 months long. NO limit on bucks. Bait is legal. Dogs are legal. Antler restrictions apply per the state on only a few state lands. They are multiple ways to harvest doe deer (ADQP, Doe Days, Individual Doe Tags). You do not have to wear orange. Almost anything and everything is legal on private land. But, the cost of leases are half of what Alabama's is. $14 is high. $24 an acres would cause state wide panic!
Alabama does not have as long a season. Limit of bucks is 3. There are state mandated antler restrictions in place. Blah Blah Blah .... and the cost to lease land in Alabama is "outrageous"!!! Thanks to the TV shows and DVD hunting movies, the cost to tag a BIG set of antlers is what has driven the cost up.
This is all anyone ever talks about anymore .... Booner Bucks, Stud Bucks, Swamp Donkey, Cactus Donkey, GIANT.

After hunting deer for almost 40 years I have arrived at this ....... When I have 5 minutes of life left in me, I will NOT be worried about who killed a button buck, or a jake turkey, or who killed the most or the biggest, or what the cost of gas r land is. What I will be thinking about is this - I wish I had more time to spend with my family and friends to go hunting and fishing.

True, but there are still major differences (historically) b/w Al. and even Illinois...In Illinois
1. they have tags and out of state hunters have to put their name in to be drawn for a tag (never heard of a hunter not getting drawn, but it requires planning, money and time)
2. they can't hunt with rifles
3. archery tackle only during the rut, etc., etc.

My point is if Illinois had previously allowed a buck per day for 30+ years I don't think their hunting would be as good as it is today in areas where the state or private land owners didn't enforce their own regs. Imagine where their public land would be if you could have shot a buck per day. A buck limit sets a trend and mind set to let bucks walk and to be more choosy about what you kill. A buck a day sets the opposite mind set...no need to be choosy and if you don't kill your neighbors will, etc., etc.

Since Al. established this mind set for so long there are properties that were and still are pretty much ruined. They can come back and I believe our limit is going to help A LOT, but it will take time, especially for those places where clubs were killing anything with horns. All this leads to having major differences between two similar properties with in the same county and area. If the land owner never got involved and let the club follow state regs. and the club never cared enough to manage the land then land owner A is going to get $8 per acre while land owner B who enforced QDM will get $12 per acre, or more.

Just my opinion based on what I've seen in our area and even on my family's over the past 20 years.

BSK........When we gather this statewide data....do we still need to know fawn recruitment rates? Will we measure that on a statewide or county wide level? It seems like with coyotes being such a big concern today that fawn recruitment would be one of the most important data points for us to know.....correct?

...but it's just general economics/ supply and demand. If the entire state had been under a 3 buck limit there would potentially be more good areas to hunt thus lowering the price over all. When supply goes up prices usually go down, unless demand continues to go up, which could be the case...then my theory doesn't make sense

BSK, maybe your landowners are just a little slower than our's. We are talking Tenn.LOL.

I've often wondered about AL's incredibly high lease process. Yes, lease prices in IL and KY have gone way up too, but considering the difference in antler quality between IL-KY and AL, I just don't understand equal prices between the areas.

Does anyone have any idea how many deer hunters AL has? How much huntable land? Is there that many more deer hunters in AL than TN, and/or less huntable land in AL than TN? TN's lease prices have gone up over the last decade, but they're definitely not what AL is seeing, and honestly, TN generally grows better bucks than AL. So why haven't lease prices gone through the roof in TN?

... I spent alot of time phone calling, emailing and even face-to-face with SC's deer and turkey project supervisor. The information and data and stats he could spit out, with TRUTH and FACT was amazing!! All of a sudden a hunter finds out how much he does NOT know about deer. And it awakens a hunger and thirst for more info, more data, to learn more.

Check this out!
Too Many Deer, Not Enough Hunters ….. In Japan.

Looks like 9ers got a new target in his sights, he's doping his scope.

We all knew it was just a matter of time before he scanned this thread for misconduct.

We could receive some collateral damage you know.

Who's he after now?

Looks like 9ers got a new target in his sights, he's doping his scope.

I spent alot of time phone calling, emailing and even face-to-face with SC's deer and turkey project supervisor.

CPiper,


It's one thing to educate yourself on matters of deer management on YOUR property and implemented through YOUR decisions. It's an entirely different matter when you begin to discuss and support mandatory statewide management of deer by our state government that affect MY decisions on MY land or lease.

I suggest you educate and inform yourself on Alabama's state constitution and Alabama's code of laws before you involve yourself too deeply in support of mandated statewide deer management and data collection rules that involve fines and jail sentences. This ain't South Carolina.


Constitutution of Alabama 1901 *** click here ****


Code of Alabama 1975 *** click here ***