What is on the downhill side, his antlers or his sperm? I thought that was one of the main arguments to move to a 3 buck limit, because the older age class bucks were more effective in the breeding process.

NightHunter,


I don't think it would either, so let me share an observation here.

Many who claim to be practicing qdm aggressively advocate shooting only mature bucks because more mature bucks are said to be beneficial to the good health of the whole deer population.

They say that the presence of more mature bucks shortens the breeding season and reduces stress... then they shoot those mature bucks before and during the rut. [See Matt Brock's post above for example]

That seems to me to be a contradiction between the theory and the practice.

Killing only mature bucks immediately before and during the breeding season cannot possibly result in having more mature bucks in the population during the breeding season.


Sounds like your assertion that the buck population is usually skewed toward the younger age classes may actually be one result of qdm practices.

Does QDM work?

Well, first let's define what "QDM" (Quality Deer Management) really is. I see a lot of hunters, magazine articles, and TV hunting shows that have little understanding about what QDM is and how it came about. In addition, although I don't disagree with them in principle, the QDMA (Quality Deer Management Association--an organization that was created in an effort to educate hunters and promote the ideas of QDM) has greatly expanded the definition of what QDM is. Although I think these expansions in definition can be a good thing, I also believe they may give the wrong impression about what is required to practice QDM.

QDM started out as a scientifically based harvest strategy intended to compensate for the over-exploitation of bucks and over-protection of does that had been occurring across parts of the U.S. after many, many years of Restoration Management. This should not be seen as an indictment of Restoration Management--it was highly effective at doing what it was intended to do: restore deer herds wiped out by market hunting. However, eventually, a new form of management was needed once deer herds were restored, and many state wildlife agencies were a bit slow in realizing this. Too many years of Restoration Management, and its practice of allowing very heavy harvest of the adult buck population, and almost total protection of the antlerless population, had led to deer herds with skewed adult sex ratios, male populations dominated by very young bucks, doe populations dominated by the oldest age-classes, and excessive total deer populations that were damaging the habitat.

QDM harvest guidelines were designed to alleviate these problems through selective harvests. Protection of young bucks would allow buck age structure to increase (more bucks surviving to older ages), and increases in antlerless harvests (where necessary) were designed to both decrease total deer density--to take browse pressure off the habitat, which in turn increased herd health--and to aid in balancing adult sex ratios. The entire system was designed to produce more natural and balanced herd structure: a more natural buck age structure, in which all age-classes of bucks exist; a more natural and balanced adult sex ratio; and a total deer population more in balance with the habitat's ability to feed it.

Now again, does QDM work? When practiced properly, and as so wisely stated by NightHunter, who said,"...you MUST HAVE REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS!," yes it absolutely works BIOLOGICALLY. Problems arise, and are the driving force in the few QDM "failures" I've witnessed, when hunters either have unrealistic expectations for their management, or the hunters are unprepared for the different style and skill of hunting required to be successful, or both. In essence, when designed and implemented properly, I've not yet seen a QDM program that was a biological failure (a failure to improve herd structure), but I have seen failures in design, failures in implementation, failures due to excessive biological and harvest expectations, and the failure of hunters to take advantage of the biological changes that were occurring.

boy poor russims didnt know the can of worms he was opening!

All I know Id rather hunt QDM lands anyday over any other type.

I QDM manage land and the results speak for itself.

I see more deer. I also see more mature bucks and have enjoyable hunts where I can view whitetail basically every time I go.

And I get to harvest a couple nice mature bucks every year...including some nice wall hangers. Some shockingly big for Alabama, and actually far better then Id have ever thought to be honest!

Thats what my goals were, as well as the enjoyment of working the land, implementing food plot programs, and trying to see just what the deer will turn into at peak maturity.

It is fun, and it is rewarding. To me it works just fine!

Nope...more like misguided management practices but not true QDM practices. BSK put it perfectly...

Quoting BSK---> "Too many years of Restoration Management, and its practice of allowing very heavy harvest of the adult buck population, and almost total protection of the antlerless population, had led to deer herds with skewed adult sex ratios, male populations dominated by very young bucks, doe populations dominated by the oldest age-classes."

BSK,



... BIOLOGICALLY means nothing more than the studies involve both animals and plants.

Do qdm theories succeed in accomplishing the claimed results as so many claim they do?

Natural populations of deer include distinct social groups that are disrupted by selective population manipulation under qdm.

Qdm managers generally target the best of the bucks immediately before and during the breeding season, possibly disrupting natural hierarchies that have been established in male social groups. Nature generally selects the young, the weak and the oldest for removal.

Qdm managers often remove female members indiscriminately to fill quotas. Nature selects the fittest to survive and lead
social groups.

Is it fitting to say that we as hunters are simply manipulating the herd as we see fit in our own game management practices....

If you like QDM, use it. If you don't like QDM, don't use it. No need to try to convince other people on your way of thinking.

For the love of peat, this!!!

It would be nice if we had retained that option ... but at the behest of QDMA and their believers, we don't have that option any longer.

Remember the little "harvest thingy" we all have to tote around and abide by now instead of just enjoying being out there hunting?

Soon we may have to tote a radio and a "harvest thingy", and when that don't work, there will be still other gimmicks that will be forced on us.

The one thing you count on ... there will be no reports proving that qdm works in an experiment conducted on an area the size of the state of Alabama.

Is it possible to practice "Your Own QDM" on your own individual property? Does it matter if someone thinks their ideas are better than the other? I'm trying to figure out why there is such a big argument over this. If what you are doing is working for you ...... continue to do it...... if it's not working...... maybe you need to change something. All you can do is what the law will allow you to do combined with what you believe is right for how you are hunting.

BSK, you knew better but just couldn't stop, could ya???

Pretty scary how well you're getting to know me!

I had been biting my tongue so long it was just bloody pulp.

Peat makes a decent fire and contributes to good Scotch.

Seriously 49er, I want to know how to identify dominant bucks. I'm fascinated by them. We now know some of the factors that a dominant buck must have, attitude, size/health, age and even antler size plays a small role, but I've never heard anyone say how to positively identify them in the wild. I think I've killed several in the past. If I could identify them, I'd rethink my hit list as that's the buck I'd put at the top.

Good night! I don't want to post here again but can't SOMEONE challenge him that we DO NOT have QDM regulations in Alabama!!?? There are regulations on harvest but they have NOTHING to do with QDM. So now the "little harvest thingy" has something to do with QDM? But somehow, the whole State is under QDM regulations and it is some sort of conspiratorial experiment. WOW

We've all read the minutes of the CAB meetings with the discussions about qdm leading up to your recommended restrictions.

Your denial that qdm was the motivating factor for the restrictions is contradicted by the facts.

I wasn't talking to you

I WAS talking to you.