Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum Breeding data

State’s in it just for $$$$. Doesn’t give a damn about improving anything but their bottom line.

ok, here's a situation y'all can all ponder over.
Property sits very close to one of the "dividing lines" on the Alabama Rut Map. Not high deer density and I believe a better than 1:3 buck to doe ratio. Habitat is good and improving each year and I believe we could sustain much higher deer numbers. Matt has seen my place so hopefully he'll chime in as well. Here's the issue, the breeding bell curve goes on for way too long. But I believe the does are being bred their first cycle. First does are bred right at Christmas. We see it happen while hunting and on cameras at night. Any "hot" doe I see has multiple bucks around her, never just one. Then, when you think it should all be over leading into MLK weekend and the week of Jan 20's, there are still bucks locking down on does. Watched a 3 yr old tend a doe in a privet thicket beside camphouse yard all afternoon Jan 23 and he had his hands full running off 2 younger bucks. Then on the 26th, 3/4 mile away I saw 8 different bucks on another doe. Poor thing was scared to come out of a brushtop. The oldest buck just stood there like a statue and stared at her for a couple of hours and would only move if one of the younger bucks tried to get between him and the doe.
These bucks keep going for 4-5 weeks and it wears them down. Am I just stuck with 2 different genetic peak breeding dates or could we narrow the breeding window? Fire away with knowledge.

I'm right there with you... I'd venture a guess we might hunt close by. My first mature buck tending a mature doe this year was around the 23rd of December. Less that a quarter mile away, I had mature bucks locking down mature does on January 18-20. There's no doubt the rut at my place stretches out - the historical date proves it. And there's also no doubt it's rougher on the bucks as well - I generally try to expand my feed program during that time. As to your question, I have no idea.

I dont think theres a whole lot you can do in that situation......I'd say you're stuck with it......Hypothetically you could try and shoot out any doe you saw getting chased early or late and narrow your does down to one group or the other but that would be difficult to actually accomplish to any significant amount

This is another hypothetical…….but……..hypothetically I think you should be able to go in each summer with a very specifically timed trapping run that occurred right after the Dec does drop their fawns but before the Jan does drop theirs and influence the survival rate of the Jan doe lineage to be greater than the Dec…….Over time that should thin out the Dec does to lower and lower levels…..I think……It would be much easier if this were Nov and Jan does and you had a wider gap between fawn drops

Odds are those are second cycle does, coming into estrus 28 days after their first cycle.

It could be…..but as far as “odds” go…..with as many areas as we have around the state where different estrous timings intermingle, it could be just as likely that its different doe lineages…..especially if he says he’s right on the boundary

Yes and that occurs too. I’m just familiar with this area, and a lot of it has to do with sex ratio more than stocking sources.

Are you sure about that Clark??......It looks like the area released nearly every possible source we had available…….

I full well know the stocking history of the area. I’ve got it all recorded in a book. Regardless of stocking history, what’s more important is the current conditions. We’ve got a lot of breeding data from that part of the state and it suggests what I said.

Here's something I’ve thought about because there’s a lot going on in a small space in my area……Lets take two different scenarios……..Lets just take random county “X” and fill it full of does from one late January stocking source…….Let’s say that the population grows and stabilizes out and now county “X” holds around 5K does county wide…….Now moving forward our doe population moves up and down a little year to year but we hover around 5K does ALL going into heat in late Jan……

Now lets go back and take the same county “X” and lets introduce does from two different stocking sources with different estrous dates of Dec and late Jan and let it grow…..Eventually we’re going to get to the same 5K doe mark and stabilize out……The difference here is that now we have lets say 2500 does that go into heat in Dec and 2500 that go into heat late Jan……..Wouldnt this second scenario see a much more intense rut during that first Dec rut when those 2500 does came into heat versus scenario one where all 5000 are in heat late Jan??.......What if it was 1500 Dec and 3500 Jan?........Wouldnt it be highly unlikely to have many second estrous Dec does in that situation??

Here's an honest question for Matt, based somewhat on CNC's question above. Will deer do like humans from the sense that if you throw 75 women in a sorority house and they are living in close proximity to each other 24/7, within 12 months most will be cycling at pretty much the same time of the month. Would the deer from different stocking dates slowly synchronize with the predominate estrous date for the majority of the native herd, in the area in which they are stocked (assuming that the stocked deer make up a non-significant minority of the overall resident doe population at time of stocking)?

Now that is a great question , Sir.

Is that a real thing or just a myth?

https://flo.health/menstrual-cycle/health/period/menstrual-synchrony

In 2017, in an attempt to end the debate, Oxford University researchers tested women who used a specific app — 360 pairs of women were included. Each had a close relationship with another woman over a long period of time. The app let women track and share information about their period, so researchers merely had to analyze the data.

The researchers reviewed the past three menstrual cycles among the pairs to identify whether any alignment could be detected. The findings stated that 273 of the pairs actually diverged instead of syncing. Conversely, just 79 pairs seemed to converge. Further, women who lived together did not report an increased percentage of alignment when compared with other pairs. The researcher concluded that this showed the idea of menstrual synchrony was a myth, despite the many women who still believe in it.

Why do so many women believe that their cycles are influenced by the women around them? The Oxford team concluded that it was based on the nature of the menstrual cycle itself. The average menstrual cycle lasts about 28 days — the time between when one cycle starts and the next begins. However, not everyone’s cycle is the same length, nor do their period last the same number of days. Because of this, there’s a lot of room for overlap to occur among a group of people, which may give the impression of syncing.

Way I read it is they tested pairs , not groups that spent many hours together daily. Keep googling.

Went from deer breeding to to synchronized periods!!! Dam I love this place !!

It may or may not be a thing but that is hilarious

Been around a few that’s in the middle of the cycle 24/7. Daum!!!!!!!!

This

That’s tough to answer. I’m not sure anything concrete has been determined. I can give you my observations. Bankhead for example, for 65-70 years had a very unique breeding season 30-60 days ahead of any native populations around. The populations were not allowed to interbreed simply due to the expansive area between them and native deer. In the late 80s and 90s they tried to kill as many of the native deer as possible and restock with Sumter co deer. Hundreds of them. Over time, the breeding dates have become a commingling of November to January. It’s really a mess. In areas outside Bankhead it would appear does have adopted a syncing of the two populations, with dates ranging in the mid to late December range. The farther you get from Bankhead the dates go to normal native AL ranges, being late December to mid January. The large assumption, is that local populations have adapted their peak breeding times over centuries, and are genetically programmed to come into estrus in sync. When you mix populations, you have the entire range of possibilities. Most restocking efforts were on such a small scale you don’t see much influence from the stocking source any longer. Native deer did what native deer do and naturally expanded back into areas they had been extirpated. Small scale releases scattered in a shotgun pattern over large geographic areas didn’t really accomplish much. Large scale releases did.