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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: BowtechDan]
#426964
10/18/12 09:47 AM
10/18/12 09:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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If the GW did do something wrong, they would just quietly "retire" him. Isn't that how it works? If he commits criminal acts, he may very well find himself out on a limb by himself with no help or immunity from the state or benefits from the insurance Fund he normally has. John Raley was a game warden who was convicted of manslaughter. Here's part of what happened to him: ... On February 7, 2005, John Raley sued James Allen Main, in his capacity as finance director of the State of Alabama; Troy King, in his capacity as the attorney 572*572 general of the State of Alabama; the State of Alabama General Liability Trust Fund ("the Fund"); and the State of Alabama (these defendants are collectively hereinafter referred to as "the State defendants"). He also named as a defendant Joyce Sharpley, in her capacity as the administratrix of the estate of her deceased husband, James Sharpley. Raley sought a judgment declaring whether the State defendants were obligated to provide him a defense and indemnification in an action brought by Sharpley against him in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Alabama, Northeastern Division. The State defendants answered the complaint asserting certain affirmative defenses and generally denying that they were obligated to defend or indemnify Raley in the federal litigation...
... The State defendants initially chose to defend Raley in the federal action under a reservation of rights. However, after Raley was convicted of manslaughter, he was excluded from coverage by the Fund based on the criminal-acts exclusion in the Fund guidelines. Once the coverage issue was resolved against Raley, the State defendants were no longer obligated to defend Raley based on their reservation to provide a defense "only until the matter of coverage [could] be resolved" and "to withdraw from the defense ... at a later date." Further, we cannot say that the State defendants acted beyond the discretion afforded by section 5 in refusing to defend Raley, because he had been excluded from coverage by the Fund based on the criminal-acts exclusion. Raley cites Universal Underwriters Ins. Co. v. Youngblood, 549 So.2d 76 (Ala.1989), and argues that the duty to defend is broader than the duty to indemnify. Youngblood, however, is distinguishable from this case in that Youngblood deals with an insurer's duty to defend its insured, whereas here we have already determined that an insurer/insured relationship does not exist between Raley and the Fund. Accordingly, we conclude that the State defendants do not owe Raley a duty to defend him in the federal litigation brought by Sharpley... Raley v. Main, 987 So. 2d 569 - Ala: Supreme Court 2007Another older example of why game wardens should be careful to follow the law themselves: ... Daniel filed an action against Hodges, a game warden, for false imprisonment (two counts) and malicious prosecution (two counts) claiming $1,000 damages. He joined as defendant Western Casualty and Surety Company, surety on Hodges' bond. Code 1940, T. 41, §§ 50, 51 and 115, as amended. This appeal is from a judgment in Hodges' favor based on a verdict directed (with hypothesis) by the trial judge...
... We consider, however, that the expression "and shall arrest without warrant * * * any person violating any of * * the game * * * laws" incorporates by reference the provisions of Code 1940, T. 15, § 154, which provides as follows: "An officer may also arrest any person, without warrant, on any day and at any time, for any public offense committed, or a breach of the peace threatened in his presence; or when a felony has been committed, though not in his presence, by the person arrested, or when a felony has been committed, and he has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested committed it; or when he has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested has committed a felony, although it may afterwards appear that a felony had not in fact been committed; or on a charge made, upon reasonable cause, that the person arrested has committed a felony." Hunting on another person's land in the day time without his permission is a misdemeanor. Since Hodges arrested Daniel without a warrant and without the offense being committed in his presence, his restraint of Daniel's liberty made a prima facie cause of action. Accordingly, the affirmative charge should not have been given as to the counts of the complaint charging Hodges with unlawful imprisonment. The judgment below is due to be reversed and the cause there remanded. Reversed and remanded. Daniel v. Hodges, 125 So. 2d 726 - Ala: Court of Appeals 1960
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: jbo]
#427085
10/18/12 12:56 PM
10/18/12 12:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,131 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,131
Round ‘bout there
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Well after reading around I determined it would be best to remove the rocks so that there would be no doubt I was legal. You could have left the rocks.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: jbo]
#427110
10/18/12 01:34 PM
10/18/12 01:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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This past Sunday I went to retrive my camera that I have had up all summer over looking a feeder and some trophy rocks. I was up there two weeks ago planting a field and I removed all the corn that was left in the feeder but did not remove the trophy rocks . Well after reading around I determined it would be best to remove the rocks so that there would be no doubt I was legal. Which is what I did sunday also. I know it has to be gone for 10 days so i wanted to get my 10 days started so I can hunt . Well two weeks ago while planting I opened the camera case to see how many pictures were on the camera and there were a few but decided to leave it out a while longer to get more. So this past Sunday around 2'oclock I go to get the camera and when I open it up there is only 1 picture on the card. I also noticed my gate was not chained back the way I always chain it when I first arrived. Game wardens frequent the area and I bet you money the warden took my card to see if we had been putting any corn in the feeder, but other than just putting the card back in the camera he wiped it clean. The one picture that was on the card was taken at 9:00 am that same Sunday. Now I may be just speculating but the only way to remove pitures on my camera is to remove the card and use a digital camera, laptop, etc., and after reading the main post on this topic it sure does seem like the same scenario. Do you see how two-faced the DCNR's policies on baiting are? They give people permits to violate the very same laws and rules that they waste so much time on when hunting season comes in. They tell you that you can hunt game animals over bait one day, and the next day it becomes a serious crime with stiff fines and possible jail time involved. The law prohibits hunting over both corn and salt, but they say salt is OK all the time while saying corn is only OK when they say it is and give you a permit to sign saying you will obey all laws while you break the law and hunt over corn or trap game animals with it. This game of "gotcha" needs to end and they need to get back to taking care of conservation and protecting game and fish like they are supposed to be doing. I've never hunted over bait, and I wouldn't if the law was changed to allow it. I still think the law should be repealed to put an end to the corruption in the DNCR's enforcement policies and the injustice well meaning hunters are suffering because of it. Trash the law and end this whole mess.
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: Levi_Drake]
#427111
10/18/12 01:34 PM
10/18/12 01:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,637 34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,637
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
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Man, this just seems wrong. I don't see how anyone except the owner of the camera has the right to even touch the camera. The wardens prob got their pic took and didn't wan't the prop ow/hunter to know they'd been snooping.
The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: 49er]
#427122
10/18/12 01:55 PM
10/18/12 01:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,363 Somerville
CAM
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,363
Somerville
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This past Sunday I went to retrive my camera that I have had up all summer over looking a feeder and some trophy rocks. I was up there two weeks ago planting a field and I removed all the corn that was left in the feeder but did not remove the trophy rocks . Well after reading around I determined it would be best to remove the rocks so that there would be no doubt I was legal. Which is what I did sunday also. I know it has to be gone for 10 days so i wanted to get my 10 days started so I can hunt . Well two weeks ago while planting I opened the camera case to see how many pictures were on the camera and there were a few but decided to leave it out a while longer to get more. So this past Sunday around 2'oclock I go to get the camera and when I open it up there is only 1 picture on the card. I also noticed my gate was not chained back the way I always chain it when I first arrived. Game wardens frequent the area and I bet you money the warden took my card to see if we had been putting any corn in the feeder, but other than just putting the card back in the camera he wiped it clean. The one picture that was on the card was taken at 9:00 am that same Sunday. Now I may be just speculating but the only way to remove pitures on my camera is to remove the card and use a digital camera, laptop, etc., and after reading the main post on this topic it sure does seem like the same scenario. Do you see how two-faced the DCNR's policies on baiting are? They give people permits to violate the very same laws and rules that they waste so much time on when hunting season comes in. They tell you that you can hunt game animals over bait one day, and the next day it becomes a serious crime with stiff fines and possible jail time involved. The law prohibits hunting over both corn and salt, but they say salt is OK all the time while saying corn is only OK when they say it is and give you a permit to sign saying you will obey all laws while you break the law and hunt over corn or trap game animals with it. This game of "gotcha" needs to end and they need to get back to taking care of conservation and protecting game and fish like they are supposed to be doing. I've never hunted over bait, and I wouldn't if the law was changed to allow it. I still think the law should be repealed to put an end to the corruption in the DNCR's enforcement policies and the injustice well meaning hunters are suffering because of it. Trash the law and end this whole mess. Good post
"Don't let a dead deer kill ya"
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: Levi_Drake]
#427126
10/18/12 02:08 PM
10/18/12 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,354 Monroe County, AL
skintback
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,354
Monroe County, AL
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Im pretty sure that all the cameras (mine does)has an option to erase all images on the card (format)
Anything worth doing, is worth doing right, or it's not worth doing at all! ------------------------------
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: Levi_Drake]
#427127
10/18/12 02:11 PM
10/18/12 02:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,131 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,131
Round ‘bout there
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Doesn't mean a game warden should be doing that to someone's camera card, or even messing with it.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: Clem]
#427131
10/18/12 02:16 PM
10/18/12 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,354 Monroe County, AL
skintback
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,354
Monroe County, AL
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Doesn't mean a game warden should be doing that to someone's camera card, or even messing with it. I agree 100%, I was just stating that on my cameras, the images can be deleted without taking the card out.
Anything worth doing, is worth doing right, or it's not worth doing at all! ------------------------------
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: 49er]
#427133
10/18/12 02:23 PM
10/18/12 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 124 Moody,AL
bdeason
3 point
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3 point
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 124
Moody,AL
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Powers and duties of game and fish wardens; powers and duties of director with respect to game and fish wardens.
(a) Game and fish wardens shall have power:
(1) To enforce all laws of this state relating to birds, animals and fish;
(2) To execute all warrants and search warrants for the violation of the game, fish and fur laws of the state;
(3) To serve subpoenas issued for examination, investigation and trial of all offenses against the law relating to game, fur bearers, birds and fish;
(4) To carry firearms as provided by law for enforcement officers when in the discharge of their official duties;
(5) To confiscate all game, birds, animals or fish or parts thereof which have been caught, taken, killed or held at a time in any manner or for any purpose or had in possession or under control or have been shipped, carried or transported contrary to the laws of this state, and game, fur bearers, birds, fish or parts thereof so confiscated shall be held as evidence in the court in which the defendant is held for trial; and, upon conviction of the defendant, said game, fur bearers, birds, fish or parts thereof shall be disposed of by written order of the court;
(6) To enter upon any land or water in the performance of their duty;
(7) To assist individual citizens, clubs, groups and organizations of sportsmen and conservation clubs by furnishing information and such other assistance as may be found necessary in the construction of fish ponds, the establishing of feeding grounds for migratory wild fowl, the planting of fish from the state and federal fish hatcheries, the reclaiming of stranded fish and the control of predators on useful forms of wildlife; and
(8) To perform such other additional duties as the commissioner may direct.
I agree it was wrong from him to take the card though.
Georgiana Davis Lodge #338
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: bdeason]
#427181
10/18/12 03:56 PM
10/18/12 03:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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I don't see criminal trespassing or stealing either one in the list of a game warden's duties. And I don't see authority there to just go walking around on people's property without probable cause because he feels like it. I do see "...To execute all warrants and search warrants for the violation of the game, fish and fur laws of the state" there though. A properly obtained search warrant supported by probable cause would trump the criminal trespassing statutes. The statute you refered to shows this history: (Acts 1935, No. 240, p. 632, §14; Code 1940, T. 8, §19.) The law defining criminal trespassing shows this history: (Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §2601; Acts 1983, No. 83-742, p. 1222.) Even if the two statutes do happen to be in conflict as you assume, the latter of the two statutes states the current law according to the reasoning used by our courts. There are no exceptions for game wardens listed in the criminal trespassing statutes.
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: Levi_Drake]
#427442
10/18/12 10:36 PM
10/18/12 10:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,043 NW Florida
fireman176
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,043
NW Florida
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This is the statement in the law that covers just about anything he wants to do, it's called CYA (cover your ass).
(8) To perform such other additional duties as the commissioner may direct.
As assistant Fire Marshall at work we have a clause that deals with interpretation and its called AHJ (authority having jurisdiction)basically it means we get to interpret the vague aspects of the law.
Is it Hunting Season Yet?
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: Levi_Drake]
#427473
10/18/12 11:28 PM
10/18/12 11:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,996 Central AL
March15
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,996
Central AL
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For everybody that thinks he was going to pull the card and look at the pics for corn with the date/time stamp, I have a question. How can he prove the date and time aren't wrong? If you don't have corn out and it's been gone for ten days, that's all that matters. BTW, I know you said he didn't have anything to read the card with, so none of the above really matters. The comment he said, "when you're caught, you're caught", that is what bothers me the most. Was he talking about himself?
It's a tough situation. If you try to do the right thing and make a phone call about him, he's going to make life miserable on you. It sucks to have a government/ law enforcement that can do that to you.
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: fireman176]
#427479
10/18/12 11:55 PM
10/18/12 11:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,021 Auburn
frezznh2o
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,021
Auburn
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This is the statement in the law that covers just about anything he wants to do, it's called CYA (cover your ass).
(8) To perform such other additional duties as the commissioner may direct.
As assistant Fire Marshall at work we have a clause that deals with interpretation and its called AHJ (authority having jurisdiction)basically it means we get to interpret the vague aspects of the law. No offense to you, but we install commercial kitchen exhaust hood systems and AHJ is THE MOST frustrating thing to deal with. basically however the AHJ interprets something makes that the new law/code. Kinda like how the Bible has been interpreted different ways resulting in so many different religions.Please tell me we aren't going to have game wardens all enforcing their own version of the law. they need to remove the grey areas and make it absolute.
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: Levi_Drake]
#427500
10/19/12 05:40 AM
10/19/12 05:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,268 North Jackson
ridgestalker
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,268
North Jackson
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Just remember their always right.Judge is buddy more than likely prob have lunch together and laugh about what they do to people.All it would take is a handful of corn to make you have a bad day.I figure he was checking your feeders out then saw the camera. Stole your card not wanting his picture taken. He realized he was caught red handed and came up with that story.The only way I'd try to take any futher would be if he was a total jerk etc.
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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Re: Sneaky Game warden
[Re: ridgestalker]
#427540
10/19/12 07:27 AM
10/19/12 07:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,582 Marshall County
FurFlyin
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,582
Marshall County
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Just remember their always right.Judge is buddy more than likely prob have lunch together and laugh about what they do to people.All it would take is a handful of corn to make you have a bad day.I figure he was checking your feeders out then saw the camera. Stole your card not wanting his picture taken. He realized he was caught red handed and came up with that story.The only way I'd try to take any futher would be if he was a total jerk etc. Bingo!
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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