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Iso
by AustinC. 05/21/24 05:01 PM
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Key:
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#424093
10/14/12 10:50 AM
10/14/12 10:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
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Gobbler, I didn't think I was taking anyone's side; just telling the truth as I saw it. They can call the deer whatever they want, but they are not genetically modified. At least, I don't think they are. If they are the product of something more than selective breeding, then please post that and I will change my tune in a hurry. I think calling them Frankenbucks and all the kind of stuff is helping the project instead of hurting it. They've now got a 6 page post on aldeer, with folks greatly exaggerating the impact of what they are gonna do - that's just what they need.
About 8 or 9 years ago there was a post about a high fence operation in the state and the aldeer gang showed no mercy in their criticism. I found out later that the guy was swarmed with phone calls from people wanting to come hunt the enclosure. He didn't have enough deer and had to turn most of them away. For every aldeer poster blasting them, there must have been 10 others reading who would have been happy to shoot one of those big bucks.
Keep telling the world that the BBP involves genetically modified Frankenbucks and you are doing just what they want. Truth in advertising works both ways.
I didn't mention any poster by name, and didn't agree or disagree with anyone personally. I just tried to point out that the project is unlikely to have any effect on the deer herd either way, and the only way it will impact people is if they get lots of publicity - good or bad.
A good day to all! PCP: Since your arguments are typically as well thought out and honest as any on here (and never cross personal lines), I enjoy debating various issues with you. Heck it's usually not any fun unless you have an opposing position  You typically lend common sense as well as a sense of humor. You have never gotten personal on any issue and are still my favorite aldeer poster!  My encouraging comment was in reference to you often siding with 9'r (he likes it when you do it, hates it when I do!!??) Sometimes I will stretch a description to make a point. There is a technical term for it but I don't know it! Genetically modified, no, but their stated purpose is to modify the genetics of the Marengo co deer herd by releasing these breeder bucks. Call it whatever, but genetic modification is the unrealistic goal of the project. I just wish they were using all this advertising for a realistic goal that could have a positive impact for all of Alabama's deer herd - HABITAT. I guarantee we can grow Frankenbucks on well managed habitat in Alabama. I've got plenty of clients that are doing just that. My analogy RE the backyard BBQ was referencing only one poster on here that has come in in and started telling everyone to "shut up" and to "go bother someone else". No offense intended A good day to all PCP makes a comment that doesnt fall in line 100% with your thinking and you comment about him!
Trust me, you are clueless about how I think about PCP.
Last edited by gobbler; 10/14/12 11:03 AM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: bwhunter]
#424128
10/14/12 11:58 AM
10/14/12 11:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,222
colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,222
colbert county
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I have to ask now that genetics is being discussed, is there genetic manipulation going on in enclosures ? Seems strange that all of a sudden 550-600 inch buck can be achieved, that seems above the normal picking the best genetic deer to breed.
Is there frankenbucks being made or is selective breeding how they got to 600 inch bucks?
as far as the OP, those big bucks won't make one iota difference
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: longbow76]
#424143
10/14/12 12:33 PM
10/14/12 12:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,005
Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,005
Round ‘bout there
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No agenda. Just asking questions. According to all the research I have been able to gather. Can you post or provide some of the links or other sources of your research? Would love to read it. Thanks.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: polywaug]
#424158
10/14/12 01:09 PM
10/14/12 01:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
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Listen Gobbler i respect that you are expert in wildlife science and biology. I understand you know more thna i do when it come to the science behind wildlife. I started posting on this board becasue i took offense to everyone jumping on a guy they probably never meet. We live in a area of the world that has our counties ranked in the highest unemployment and povertyy in the country. These men are trying to help the area they live in and love. Most of the locals love the idea and welcome it. When i first read all the post on here and all the commnets i took offense to it. I realize that im doing the smae thing on here to others as what first pi$$ed me off and i apologize. The truth is nobody really knows the out come if this project. A good example is years ago a man gave 10 fallow deer to Mr. Bain Henderson in Millers Ferry and he put them into the pastures with his cows. After several years 10 became 50 and 50 became 100. One day he decieded to open the fence and let them go. After that for over 60yrs wilcox county had a healthy wild herd of fallow deer. Almost everyone in the county has a rack or a mount of one these deer. They thrived and were as wild or wilder than most whitetails. They have since been killed off. Out of town and out state hunter have came in and with no hunting season have in the last 20yrs wipped them out. But for the half century that we had wild fallow deer here it was a great thing. Most poeple today would frawn on the idea of this and have 100 reason why thing is a horrible idea and why it woldnt work,but it did happen and was a great thing. I liek you dotn want to see our deer being harmed. I personally hate the idea of peole raising deer as pets and then letting some rich dic# come murder him and then go have a cigar. Thats not hunting to me. But the fact is they ahve already released several deer and will released more. I as you hope this does not turn out to be a bad thing and kill several deer. I dotn see where one isolated case if its even there could harm to many deer. Not as much as cars do. I also believe that if this was about animal disease we then troughs and feeding deer would be a big topic too. But we can agree to disagree and thats fine. I do apologize for acting like a a$$ and for being a hypocrite in regards to the name calling. I get caught up sometimes if the fun of arguing. Civil is good, I can do civil (usually ). I never dissed the guys involved in the project, and noted several times their good intentions. I commend you for defending them although the problems most have is the PROJECT, not the guys involved. Good intentions often have unintended, negative consequences, which is why I would suggest this project be contained in a high fence so neighbors NOT be effected. The bottom line is that if I have a property there, and I DON"T want these deer on my place, this project negatively effects MY property rights and that does not seem to have been considered - kinda like why WOULDN'T"T any one want this?? Your analogy to fallow deer is a good one, but substitute PIGS or COYOTES for fallow deer - get my point? Both of these critters WERE released by well-intentioned landowners just trying to help out the sportsmen of Alabama to have another critter to hunt. Just deciding that since someone thinks it is good then lets subject everyone to it is the issue. I personal am GLAD the fallows are gone - again there are negative effects of exotic wildlife in free-range situations and if I don't want them, I shouldn't be subject to someone elses thought of a good idea. I wish the same had happened to pigs, kudzu, privet, bahaia, bermuda, fescue, starlings, European sparrows, chinaberry, popcorn tree, mimosa, autumn olive, wisteria, etc... all of which were released or established with good intentions but are having significant negative consequences. It's happening, and I really don't care nor think it will make any impact, positive or negative. The beauty of this board and these folks on here is freedom to debate an issue like this - civilly (yea sometimes I don't follow the rules either ) But we usually all can argue opposite sides of an issue and go our separate ways still as friends. BTW, troughs and feeding ARE a big issue but that's another debate. My apologies as well for being an azz! Have a good day!
Last edited by gobbler; 10/14/12 01:35 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: bwhunter]
#424187
10/14/12 02:30 PM
10/14/12 02:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,169
Florence, Al
AlabamaSwamper
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,169
Florence, Al
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KNowing a thing or two about "breeding" animals for certain genes (boy that just doesn't sound right)   , I can tell you that by generation #2 any "selected" genetics released into a wild herd will be so watered down that the chances of it showing up isn't worth talking about. Especially when a deer must reach a certain age in Alabama to show it. If these guys released any diseases into Alabama's deer herd, there should be steep criminal charges filed.
Last edited by AlabamaSwamper; 10/14/12 03:39 PM.
BTR Scorer in NW Alabama
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: AlabamaSwamper]
#424191
10/14/12 02:42 PM
10/14/12 02:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
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If these idiots released any diseases into Alabama's deer herd, there should be steep criminal charges filed. Dang and I was just making the point that no one was trashing these guys personally
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: polywaug]
#424193
10/14/12 02:52 PM
10/14/12 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,471
Marshall County
FurFlyin
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,471
Marshall County
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These men are trying to help the area they live in and love. Oh Dear Lord. Now they are being touted as doing this as a community service. polywaug, I'm going out on a limb and guess that you are 25 years old or less. I don't mean this as disrespectful, but you seem very naive. These men are doing this to deepen their pockets and not for ONE other reason.
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: FurFlyin]
#424216
10/14/12 03:34 PM
10/14/12 03:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,176
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,176
Sylacauga, AL
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>>>PCP makes a comment that doesnt fall in line 100% with your thinking and you comment about him! <<< Polywaug, gobbler is my forester and is always looking for a chance to argue with me. Maybe its the fact that he's lost every single debate we've ever had on here that causes him to keep coming back for more.  I shoulda stayed out of this, but since I didn't, guess I better dig the hole a little deeper. The main thing in the thread that I objected to was the use of the term "genetically modified." Or maybe it was "genetically altered." I don't remember, and don't even remember who used it, and I sure ain't suffering thru reading this whole thread again. Anyway, Genetically Modified is a term that has been accepted everywhere to mean tampering with the genes of plants and animals. I used RR corn as an example in my first post. Here's a short article on it: http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/gmfood.shtmlI do NOT believe the deer to be used in the BBP have been genetically modified. IF they have, that I would sure be against it being legal to release them. I believe that the big antlers have been bred into them by regular old selective breeding; something that every livestock man does. So I think the opponents of the BBP ought to use a different term and not imply that the deer have been genetically altered. And my other main point was that there are lots of hunters out there that would be more than happy to pay a lot of money to shoot a Frankenbuck. The more that you call them that and talk about them, the more you actually help the program instead of hurting it. Gobbler said: >>>Sometimes I will stretch a description to make a point. There is a technical term for it but I don't know it!<<< I think the word you are looking for is hyperbole. You are a Master of it. Glad you didn't take my arguments personally. Everyone please carry on.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: bwhunter]
#424251
10/14/12 05:15 PM
10/14/12 05:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,105
Birmingham, AL
Wade
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,105
Birmingham, AL
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I waded in the topic way too late to say anything constructive. So, I will voluntter to help both sides. If someone will please let me know when and where they are opening the trailer door I will gladly shoot the disease ridden monster as he exits the door and promptly ride him around on the tailgate of my truck for three days and then post his mounted picture on Aldeer.
I also think that PCP's front gate will be an excellent release location.
Don't give up, don't ever give up!
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: Wade]
#424321
10/14/12 06:52 PM
10/14/12 06:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,176
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,176
Sylacauga, AL
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I waded in the topic way too late to say anything constructive. So, I will voluntter to help both sides. If someone will please let me know when and where they are opening the trailer door I will gladly shoot the disease ridden monster as he exits the door and promptly ride him around on the tailgate of my truck for three days and then post his mounted picture on Aldeer.
I also think that PCP's front gate will be an excellent release location. An excellent post! Best one in the thread, and the best idea of a release location. Please get them to wait until rifle season to let him go; that will be an occasion to bring the 742 out of retirement. You will have to hope I miss 5 times and he is able to run a half mile before you can start blasting. >>>Can this be achieved thru selective breeding<<< I sure believe it was. I looked for some pics of grand champion hogs from the 20s and then recent fair champions - they don't even look like the same animal. They've gone from an animal for producing lard to one that produces lean meat. Here's an article with a few pics: http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe50s/crops_11.htmlIt would be nice if some of the deer farmers could comment here. I have never before heard an accusation against them that they were into gene modification. If they are, well, I will take back everything I've said. I really don't think deer farmers would have the $ to pull that off. Isolating the gene for producing large antlers would be a big task for Monsanto to handle. I think.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: bwhunter]
#424331
10/14/12 07:03 PM
10/14/12 07:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
mike35549
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
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I really don't have an opinion for or against this this. But if it was legal to do so and I wanted to buy 1 or 100 deer and turn them loose on my property it wouldn't be anyone else business.
If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#424358
10/14/12 07:32 PM
10/14/12 07:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
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Polywaug, gobbler is my forester and is always looking for a chance to argue with me. Maybe its the fact that he's lost every single debate we've ever had on here that causes him to keep coming back for more. Gobbler said: >>>Sometimes I will stretch a description to make a point. There is a technical term for it but I don't know it!<<< I think the word you are looking for is hyperbole. You are a Master of it. Glad you didn't take my arguments personally. Everyone please carry on. You sure you didn't mean "was"? I guess you are waiting till you lose one Wish you needed a Biologist too  BTW Poly, PCP is also my English teacher and political consultant
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: cartervj]
#424361
10/14/12 07:35 PM
10/14/12 07:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
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Can this be achieved thru selective breeding Whatever it is, I, personally, think it is severely damaging our sport, along with the hunting video business. The "project" does little to help in that regard either. My $.02
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: gobbler]
#424370
10/14/12 07:43 PM
10/14/12 07:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,841
Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,841
Boxes Cove
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Can this be achieved thru selective breeding Whatever it is, I, personally, think it is severely damaging our sport, along with the hunting video business. The "project" does little to help in that regard either. My $.02 Spot on, Gob. I find myself agreeing with you more and more,but......I still don't like pines.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: mike35549]
#424376
10/14/12 07:48 PM
10/14/12 07:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49
longbow76
spike
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spike
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49
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I really don't have an opinion for or against this this. But if it was legal to do so and I wanted to buy 1 or 100 deer and turn them loose on my property it wouldn't be anyone else business. Amen
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Re: Big Buck Project
[Re: 2Dogs]
#424381
10/14/12 07:49 PM
10/14/12 07:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,227
South Alabama
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Can this be achieved thru selective breeding Whatever it is, I, personally, think it is severely damaging our sport, along with the hunting video business. The "project" does little to help in that regard either. My $.02 Spot on, Gob. I find myself agreeing with you more and more,but......I still don't like pines. Maybe we can tag team PCP and win one
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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