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Iso
by AustinC. 05/21/24 05:01 PM
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22 registered members (Fl Panhandler, RCHRR, Tree Dweller, Frankie, BCLC, Sgiles, WC82, Tigger85, sevenup, Bjoff27, riflenut, kaferhaus, TEM, jtillery, Mulcher, woodduck, klay, jake5050, 4 invisible),
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guests, and 0
spiders. |
Key:
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: UA Hunter]
#4091944
02/28/24 04:51 AM
02/28/24 04:51 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128
Elmore County
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trick question . lol
will a 3 year bred less does than a 6 year old ??? i think that's about what you're asking ?
or
you asking what effect of age structure is there on herd health
Last edited by Frankie; 02/28/24 05:04 AM.
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: UA Hunter]
#4092235
02/28/24 12:49 PM
02/28/24 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083
Awbarn, AL
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I’d say the biggest factor is reducing breeding stress on the younger bucks
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: CNC]
#4092243
02/28/24 12:56 PM
02/28/24 12:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,302 Right behind you
Mbrock
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,302
Right behind you
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I’d say the biggest factor is reducing breeding stress on the younger bucks Ding ding
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: UA Hunter]
#4092289
02/28/24 01:39 PM
02/28/24 01:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128
Elmore County
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you two seem to imply fewer older bucks would mean less bucks ?
Last edited by Frankie; 02/28/24 01:39 PM.
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: UA Hunter]
#4092290
02/28/24 01:41 PM
02/28/24 01:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083
Awbarn, AL
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but what if you have a lot of younger bucks ? Then they’ll heavily compete with each other over the first and last does to come into estrous……With older bucks present the only real competition for those does is amongst the older bucks who are better developed to handle to rigors. The younger ones only breed does during the peak of the bell curve when there isnt as much of a need for “competing” with other bucks. Much lower stress levels on them across the board.
Last edited by CNC; 02/28/24 01:43 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: Frankie]
#4092294
02/28/24 01:45 PM
02/28/24 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083
Awbarn, AL
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you two seem to imply fewer older bucks would mean less bucks ? Depends on how badly stressed the younger bucks get and how that impacts mortality rates
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: CNC]
#4092302
02/28/24 01:55 PM
02/28/24 01:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128
Elmore County
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you two seem to imply fewer older bucks would mean less bucks ? Depends on how badly stressed the younger bucks get and how that impacts mortality rates but with natural mortality rate you gonna have more 3 1/2 than 6 1/2. out side of having trophy bucks where the difference . herd health wise ??
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: UA Hunter]
#4092311
02/28/24 02:04 PM
02/28/24 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083
Awbarn, AL
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“Older” bucks consists of 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9+ year olds…..not just 6 year olds……
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: CNC]
#4092318
02/28/24 02:13 PM
02/28/24 02:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128
Elmore County
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“Older” bucks consists of 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9+ year olds…..not just 6 year olds…… yes im aware of that . also aware a spike can breed a doe too . you'll have more 1 1/2 than 3 1/2
Last edited by Frankie; 02/28/24 02:15 PM.
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: Frankie]
#4092374
02/28/24 03:08 PM
02/28/24 03:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,651
abolt300
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,651
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but what if you have a lot of younger bucks ? The main reason you dont have older bucks is because you dont have a lot of younger bucks growing into older age classes. Younger bucks become older bucks if they dont die from the myriad of things that young bucks die from, the #1 cause in Alabama being lead or copper poisoning.
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: Frankie]
#4092376
02/28/24 03:11 PM
02/28/24 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083
Awbarn, AL
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“Older” bucks consists of 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9+ year olds…..not just 6 year olds…… yes im aware of that . also aware a spike can breed a doe too . you'll have more 1 1/2 than 3 1/2 Again, does go into estrous on a bell curve over a about an 18 day time frame…..This isnt exact but generally speaking there’s a few in estrous during the first 6 days……A LOT in estrous during the middle 6 days…..and a few again during the last 6 days……Ideally you want enough “older bucks”….4-9 years olds……to claim all of the does in estrous during those first and last phases so that the 1-3 year olds are only breeding during the peak and not intensely competing and breeding throughout the entire rut.
Last edited by CNC; 02/28/24 03:12 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: UA Hunter]
#4092423
02/28/24 04:13 PM
02/28/24 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,083
Awbarn, AL
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This is also how the buck to doe ratio gets screwed up when you have areas with very few, if any, bucks in those older age classes……which leads to other issues like too many does having to bred in 2nd and 3rd estrous cycles…….fawn drops that are spread out and more susceptible to predation……late born fawns…..etc…….We don’t really have a problem with too many does like a lot of folks want you to believe…..we have a problem with overharvesting bucks.....Its like Goatkiller said, there isnt any actual management going on by the state....its all about a body count and just keeping populations down
Last edited by CNC; 02/28/24 04:17 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: abolt300]
#4092439
02/28/24 04:31 PM
02/28/24 04:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128
Elmore County
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but what if you have a lot of younger bucks ? The main reason you dont have older bucks is because you dont have a lot of younger bucks growing into older age classes. Younger bucks become older bucks if they dont die from the myriad of things that young bucks die from, the #1 cause in Alabama being lead or copper poisoning. i under stand that but not what im asking about. what im asking would have more to do with high grading
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: CNC]
#4092442
02/28/24 04:33 PM
02/28/24 04:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128
Elmore County
|
This is also how the buck to doe ratio gets screwed up when you have areas with very few, if any, bucks in those older age classes……which leads to other issues like too many does having to bred in 2nd and 3rd estrous cycles…….fawn drops that are spread out and more susceptible to predation……late born fawns…..etc…….We don’t really have a problem with too many does like a lot of folks want you to believe…..we have a problem with overharvesting bucks.....Its like Goatkiller said, there isnt any actual management going on by the state....its all about a body count and just keeping populations down less stay in one rabbit hole at a time .
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Re: Benefits of mature bucks
[Re: CNC]
#4092444
02/28/24 04:37 PM
02/28/24 04:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,128
Elmore County
|
“Older” bucks consists of 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9+ year olds…..not just 6 year olds…… yes im aware of that . also aware a spike can breed a doe too . you'll have more 1 1/2 than 3 1/2 Again, does go into estrous on a bell curve over a about an 18 day time frame…..This isnt exact but generally speaking there’s a few in estrous during the first 6 days……A LOT in estrous during the middle 6 days…..and a few again during the last 6 days……Ideally you want enough “older bucks”….4-9 years olds……to claim all of the does in estrous during those first and last phases so that the 1-3 year olds are only breeding during the peak and not intensely competing and breeding throughout the entire rut. so youre saying 12,,,, 3 1/2 (young deer ) wont breed as many as 12,,,,, 5 1/2(old deer) , if there are no older deer the younger will breed .
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