So now if you can imagine you just put that model into slight motion like it’s a GIF....expanding and shrinking of bubbles, etc…There’s a lot of variables at play within each one of those irregular shaped bubbles that will dictate how each one and then the whole thing evolves and interacts…..I think that’s most important thing to see ……that it’s still an ever evolving and moving system dictated by how the variables in the model change over time…….

I think the problem is development traps deer, and those that are pushed out of limited carrying capacity area's are the road hazard deer you see. It is sort of like the ecological version of playing chicken, or walking the plank. I don't see dead deer on the side of the road at my hunting club. I know they cross the road though. It could be a lack of traffic on the roads. Or it could be there aren't very many crossing the road. I know they are being squeezed out of area's though, because they are developing more of the area adjacent to my lease. Which probably means it won't be our lease for to long.

All roads are not equal…….We’re mainly talking about highways and interstates ……When a doe group of lets say 5 does starts using both sides of the road…..after a couple weeks one will usually get clipped off out of the group…..a few more weeks and another one will……until it whittles things down to the ones who just use one side or the other……The usually happens in late winter……Doe groups that use both sides have a much shorter life span……Just look at the state’s map they produced…..Its already showing you your multiverse bubbles…..like I said though, their true shape in not actually round……This map is just partially complete.....Keep in mind that things like lakes and major habitat breaks also define the perimeter of each bubble

If there are any does completely immigrating across boundaries due to expansion from within, I bet its happening during fawning.....that's just a guess though

These are your true multiverse bubbles…..Remember we’re talking strictly about doe herds……This doesn’t mean that they are all different, just that there’s the potential for it.

No disrespect CNC, but I don't think the deer are as affected by roads as you think. I'm sure plenty of deer are crossing roads and highways all the time without anyone seeing them.

CNC - Honestly can't figure out what you are trying to prove on some doe dispersal theory.... yea.... they move around and expand. Obviously. How they do this is not really an issue.

They walk across roads the same as they walk across a property line... they don't care. It's just part of their neighborhood. When the rut comes and movement in general is up across the board there will be more deer laying dead on the side of the road.... another obvious.

If you have low deer numbers and low doe numbers you will have near zero buck numbers. When you stop shooting them they come back some from surrounding areas like a cow.... they go to food sources. This is why your neighbor can plant a corn field and draw the deer from your property to theirs.

it's really simple. Think of deer like cows... they are just not in a pen and you can't doctor them. Other than they this is very similar to free-range cattle or sheep or any other animal.

As far as claiming that Alabama has peaked in "capacity" with respect to deer numbers...... that's funny. There are areas around the State with very LOW numbers. For example... most public land. Our public land hunting is near horrible but it appears to me the States has said screw you guys who don't have a big 1,000+ acre lease. Rules for Me NOT for Thee. The entire State's management plan is not really a management plan at all IMO it is what big landowner's want. I'll get to the reason why in a minute.

I will tell you where Deer numbers have peaked... my neighborhood. They are eating the flowers by the neighbor's front porch. Appears we've got some pretty nice bucks in that mix too I have seen at least one 140 inch deer close to my house in Birmingham.

Amazing what happens when there is low hunting pressure or maybe none at all. Looks like Alabama has the potential for a LOT better racks IMO. That's my observation. But on the flip side...drive 20 miles in any direction and you might hunt all season and never lay eyes on a 120 inch deer.

Who doesn't want higher deer numbers and bigger antlers. Anyone? Tell me again how if you shoot up all the deer you'll have more deer and bigger antlers? 20+ years later still trying to sell that BS huh? Show me how well it has worked somewhere then. And then show me Statewide... It's a disaster.

What we are not discussing here is VERY simple.... we've got hunters all across the State. Nearly every available stich of property is hunted. We've got large groups coming in here from out-of-state. LA and FL are big draws.... They are spending money at every gas station, feed store and Mom and Pop watering hole in Rural Alabama for 3 months out of the year... which is all about the economy. $14 Billion per year according to the Outdoor Industry Association.

And there is your answer..... Blasting does = $14 Billion for the State of Alabama.

IMO what we have done is take the absolute most lazy approach possible to managing our deer herd... and decided like most things in AL State Government , that this approach nets the most $$$'s in Revenue for the State with the least amount of work or effort.

And there you have it.

It's simple to justify you get study done by some academic personality like Dr. Deer and you sell it too the majority. "The Science" (say it like Dr. Fauci).... all just BS and all the deer blasting is 100% nothing but politics.

CNC, I'll try one more time. Since CWD has become more prevalent deer movement studies have garnered an increase in interest. GPS and camera tech has helped a ton. There are great articles available that document buck and doe dispersal patterns. Instead of shooting from the hip you could access these documents.

Google scholar is your friend.

Deer cant cross roads.

That's funny.

Let me ask y’all this question then for those who do not believe the road is impacting the doe herd……..If you look at the rut map the state has produced what defines where one area stops and the other begins……do you think it just transitions in the middle of a cutover somewhere???

Take these two areas for example they have marked as green……….

Most of that map has interstates bisecting large blocks of the same colors..........? If interstates can't act as fences, what is a county road supposed to do?

Also maybe coyotes have gotten the fawns, thus the does dried up?

So biologists in other states that believe a 1:1 ratio is better than 2:1 or 4:1 or whatever. Why do they say the same thing? Is it also to generate tax money for the state they are in? Or is it a different reason?

I haven't seen him say a close ratio isn't great. It's just you get there in 1 of 2 ways.
Option 1: kill does until you only have as many left as you do bucks for your objective ratio.
Option 2: quit killing deer (especially bucks) until you have a bunch of bucks living to close gap on ratio.

We restocked the state with deer about the same time the first interstates were just being built……Like I said there’s a lot of variables at play here but you need to run the model back to when we first restocked (the big bang if you will)…..to when expansion was occurring into new ground in little multiverse bubbles all over the state……There wasn’t anything back then to restrict the constant push outward from the center with new births other than the available habitat……. There also weren’t many multiverse bubbles touching to have any constraints…..Pretty much the only one that existed back then was in southwest Alabama where a north south line created a natural break…..which likely contained an intermingling transition zone…..going from early Jan to late Jan.

The result of what we have today however is all of those bubbles have grown and “filled in” and then most have deflated back a bit when we opened up doe seasons. Like I said in a previous post……because a bunch of individual bubbles exist does not mean that two individual bubbles have to be different. Many of these places filled in long before we had the type of highway traffic that we do today.

I never said county roads do this……I specifically said highways and interstates.

Option 2… not sure how that would work since birth ratios are virtually 1:1. Unless you are talking about other bucks coming to your property that aren’t born there. I know this happens but I would think it happens with both sexes. Coming and going. So if the ratio is 3:1 and we quit killing deer, wouldn’t it be 3:1 each year after that? Or am I missing something? I am sure I am just not catching on to what you are saying.

Look at Wilcox County. Half brown, half green There's very few roads in Wilcox County big enough that a deer cant jump over. Rut map shows green on both sides of the river so that's not the inhibitor. Brown drops down almost to the line over on the east side of county. Nothing there to stop movement. I could see a major 4 or 6 lane interstate with an 8 ft high fence along it, prohibiting deer movement, but generic paved roads throughout counties? There's just no way. Deer cross paved roads all the time.

HWY 80 between Demopolis and Selma is a wide 4 lane in 90% of the spots and deer cross back and forth across it all the time. Probably dont cross it as much as they would if it was a two track dirt road but if one wants to get to the other side, it doesnt slow them down at all. We see bucks and does crossing it all the time, especially during the rut.

Either you see the different variables at play or you dont……The way they exist in our scenario and not just in a Texas deer study.....To each his own.

This thread may be as stupid as the game camera thread...