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truck
by jhix3734. 06/17/24 01:59 AM
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14 registered members (cmontgomery, mzzy, farmerjay, bhammedic84, jake44, Gobble4me757, Multi-Tool, Geezer, MTeague, Cactus_buck, Parker243, donia, 2 invisible),
382
guests, and 0
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: Tree Dweller]
#3717582
07/29/22 07:31 PM
07/29/22 07:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299
colbert county
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At that point, Azov became an official unit of Ukraine’s National Guard. Now, the movement’s most public face is the National Corps political party, which won barely 2% of the vote in a coalition with other far-right parties in parliamentary elections in 2019.
Estimates of membership are around 10,000 members, according to Corborne.
“It’s more a brand than a party, a polished PR-focused outfit that isn’t above coyly referencing the so-called “14 words”, a white supremacist slogan,” he wrote. “The Azov movement tries to be a one-stop shop for all things far right. There’s also a bevy of loosely affiliated but more extreme subgroups under its umbrella as well, including open neo-Nazis who praise and promote violence.”
The Azov Movement is frequently cited by people who want to “give Putin a free pass to do what he wants in Ukraine,” Corborne added. “It doesn’t in any way justify the actions of the Russian president.”
Bottom Line
Let’s look beyond the flashy headlines.
Ukraine’s Jewish population ranges from 49,000 to 400,000 people. Some of Judaism’s most distinctive ideologies and traditions have their roots in the area. Their current president is Jewish, and they have had a Jewish prime minister too.
In the same breath, the community is no stranger to both historical and current persecution. Antisemitism continues to spike across the spectrum, all over the world, including in both Russia and Ukraine.
There is a world of difference between real concerns about the growing far-right and hyperbolic claims that Ukraine is aligned with Nazism.
The far-right is a problem in Ukraine, but Ukraine is far from a Nazi state.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: BhamFred]
#3717928
07/30/22 12:20 PM
07/30/22 12:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,262 Meridianville
DryFire
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,262
Meridianville
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Zelensky outlawed all of the political parties in Ukraine EXCEPT his own AND the NAZI Party. The Nazi Party??? WTF??
The only degree of corruptness between Zelensky and Putin is the spelling of their names..... You really need to stop going to certain websites for your news and information.
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: BhamFred]
#3717972
07/30/22 01:49 PM
07/30/22 01:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,081 Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,081
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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Zelensky outlawed all of the political parties in Ukraine EXCEPT his own AND the NAZI Party. The Nazi Party??? WTF??
The only degree of corruptness between Zelensky and Putin is the spelling of their names..... And Zelensky didn't invade a sovereign nation killing innocent women and children in doing so all for the lust of more territory. That is kind of a big difference in my mind.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: jwalker77]
#3717995
07/30/22 02:29 PM
07/30/22 02:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 24,903 Buc-ee’s Beach Express
leroycnbucks
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 24,903
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
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So Zelensky is the bad guy here. Interesting.
Of course hes a bad guy. How could anyone believe otherwise Because his country doesn’t have nuclear weapons pointed at us ? Because his country hasn’t provided weapons to terrorist that have killed and maimed Americans? Because his country hasn’t invaded their neighbor killing innocent Russian civilians? These are just a few that has me believing otherwise.
Proud Army and ALNG veteran God Bless America!
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: Tree Dweller]
#3718000
07/30/22 02:38 PM
07/30/22 02:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,985 Alabama
Cactus_buck
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,985
Alabama
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I can agree Putin is evil. I can agree that he shouldn’t invade Ukraine. I can’t agree and say that Zelensky is an innocent person. He’s still a dictator. He has done things that any constitutionalist and red blooded American should disagree with.
Last edited by Cactus_buck; 07/30/22 02:39 PM.
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: Cactus_buck]
#3718027
07/30/22 03:15 PM
07/30/22 03:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299
colbert county
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I can agree Putin is evil. I can agree that he shouldn’t invade Ukraine. I can’t agree and say that Zelensky is an innocent person. He’s still a dictator. He has done things that any constitutionalist and red blooded American should disagree with. Please enlighten me. I can not find anything on what you speak of
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: Cactus_buck]
#3718045
07/30/22 03:32 PM
07/30/22 03:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299
colbert county
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All you have to do is google zelensky and outlawing other political parties. Article after article pop up. Y’all act like this guy is the savior of the free world. Nope I’m not acting that way. I’m acting like he is protecting a sovereign nation being invaded by someone the US used to hate I waded into these topics because the US Promised we’d protect them if they’d do away with nukes. We lied once again The libertarian in me says don’t wade into other counties problems. Let them be even if it means they get nukes. Google is giving only Russian propaganda agendas when I dig It I mean how many of you would get rid of the Democratic Party. LOL
Last edited by cartervj; 07/30/22 03:35 PM.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: Tree Dweller]
#3718063
07/30/22 03:58 PM
07/30/22 03:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299
colbert county
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Google is showing Zelensky shut down pro Russian parties after the invasion
Last edited by cartervj; 07/30/22 03:59 PM.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: Cactus_buck]
#3718106
07/30/22 05:23 PM
07/30/22 05:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,512 coffee county
goodman_hunter
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,512
coffee county
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I can agree Putin is evil. I can agree that he shouldn’t invade Ukraine. I can’t agree and say that Zelensky is an innocent person. He’s still a dictator. He has done things that any constitutionalist and red blooded American should disagree with. A dictator would have expelled the communist party before the invasion. Once your country is attacked, invaded, destroyed, robbed. Expelling the enemy and their politicians is par for the course at that point.
For without victory, there is no survival
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: whack-n-stack]
#3718154
07/30/22 06:55 PM
07/30/22 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,985 Alabama
Cactus_buck
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,985
Alabama
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Some of you think Russia is bigger than it is. This is a slightly larger Bosnia-Croat dispute in reality. Nobody else is getting directly involved. Just enjoy the show while it lasts. Russia is the largest country by landmass in the world making up 11%. USA is 6ish% Or were you meaning bigger in a different sense?
Last edited by Cactus_buck; 07/30/22 06:56 PM.
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: Tree Dweller]
#3718159
07/30/22 07:04 PM
07/30/22 07:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299
colbert county
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I’m not liking world food production or lack thereof inflating food price any further.
Inflated cost of this years farming hasn’t been factored in yet with tripled herbicide and fertilizer prices.
I’ve heard opposite projections. One says prices and supply will be a major issue for farmers for next years season. I’ve also heard from another source saying prices should come down as numerous production are being moved to India. Both sources work directly with farmers.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: Tree Dweller]
#3718561
07/31/22 02:43 PM
07/31/22 02:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299
colbert county
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Yeah, those accusation always seem absurd to me...accusing a Jewish comedian who lost family in the holocaust of being a Nazi sympathizer is a bit bizarre. Kyiv, Ukraine was the site of numerous Nazi atrocities such as the “Baba Yar” massacre of its Jewish population. The valley in central Kyiv where this happened is still held as a memorial site, and Ukrainians have a very strong, traditional hatred of Nazi Germany.
However, Ukraine has a complicated relationship with WWII. The end of WWII was both a victory and a defeat for Ukraine. Prior to the war Ukraine was fighting towards its independence, first from the Russian Empire, and then from the Soviet Union. But after WWII and the victory of Soviet forces over Nazi Germany, Ukraine was free of Nazi occupation, but also fell firmly under the rule of the USSR. The Soviet Union regarded victory in WWII as a grand symbol of the strength and righteousness of Soviet Communist ideology, and at that point if you weren’t a Communist you were considered a Nazi. There was no middle ground. Thus, anyone who was independent, and campaigned for independence from the USSR was labeled a Nazi sympathizer and quickly discredited.
Like many other European countries today, or even the USA for that matter, Ukraine does have a small extreme far-Right political movement who are essentially Neo-Nazis, but it doesn't hold any real political weight and is mainly a fringe group. You'll see them passing out fliers once in a while, or protesting something near the government offices in Kyiv, but they've never gained any momentum.
However, there is the very problematic Azov Regiment, which is a volunteer group formed in 2014 in response to the invasion of Eastern Ukraine. They are a privately-owned militia, they are vicious fighters, fiercely loyal to Ukraine, and also insanely far-far-Right-Wing. They're super unhinged and very dangerous politically, but are also very useful in the fight against Russia so Ukrainian politicians are always afraid to publicly criticize them. Most Ukrainians I know regard them as Neo-Nazi nut-jobs and want the government to distance itself from them, but because of their performance in various battles against Russia (they were the ones in that steel plant that was under siege for months), they have earned a following that sees them as heroes—which they are in a sense...they're just politically, ummm...unsophisticated.
One other episode from history that always comes back to haunt modern Ukraine is the case of Stepan Bandera. Prior to WWII Bandera was a resistance leader fighting for Ukrainian independence from the USSR. When WWII broke out, Ukraine was between a rock and a hard place, with the USSR coming from one direction and Germany from the other. They could either fight the Germans alongside the Soviets, or fight the Soviets alongside the Germans—or stay in the middle and just get crushed. In hindsight, Bandera and his fighters made the wrong call and accepted help from the Germans to fight against the Russians and ended up loosing their bid for independence anyway. Following WWII Bandera and his followers were demonized by the USSR as full-on Nazis. Accusing anyone who opposes them of being Nazis is an old strategy that the Soviets have used time and again.
In all my years living in Ukraine, I never witnessed any mainstream public sentiment that was even remotely “Nazi.” Walking down the street wearing a swastika would meet the same reaction as displaying a hammer and sickle—you'd probably get beat up... Nazi Germany is generally seen in the same light as the USSR, as an old enemy and oppressor, and mainstream Ukrainian politics are focused on aligning themselves with the EU and the West.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: Tree Dweller]
#3718563
07/31/22 02:45 PM
07/31/22 02:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,299
colbert county
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He finally got back with me and those are his words
I’ll take them over some internet BS
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Zelensky
[Re: cartervj]
#3718894
08/01/22 06:38 AM
08/01/22 06:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743 Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743
Lickskillet, AL
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He finally got back with me and those are his words
I’ll take them over some internet BS Who?
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