CNC, I know you do T&M and so do I for the past 6 years or so. If you had access to a no till drill, would you quit T&M and go that route. I'm not talking about disking, just drill through the thatch?

You know its funny you asked that because I was just thinking about that same thing……I guess it would just depend a lot on the situation but if we’re talking about a scenario where it’s a hunting club or a private landowner who is only planting small 1-3 acre fall plots scattered across a few thousand acres or more then I don’t think I would use a drill even if I had one available….I for sure wouldn’t if you’re talking about having to buy one JUST for fall plots…..It just seems like it would be more cumbersome and slow to haul that thing around from plot to plot just to plant cereals, clovers, and brassicas…...also just a lot of unnecessary cost and maintenance……Now, if it were maybe a private landowner who had a couple hundred acres of sho nuff ag fields and they also wanted to incorporate a high end summer planting program as well then I would probably look to a drill as being the better option

Let me add one more thing to that……..Hopefully this doesnt come across as arrogant but I say that knowing or with a strong belief that I myself can take each situation or individual plot and finagle each one the way it needs finagling in order to make T&M be successful whether it be sand or clay or regardless of its current conditions good or bad………For someone who may not have as good of a grasp of the concepts and ideas then a drill would probably be a much simpler way for them to insure success……

I don’t know if this is the case with your situation but something to look at moving forward is the amount or ratio of summer “grass” that is growing in your fields…….If you have a situation for example where maybe you have a field of mostly bahiagrass putting out large amount of carbon during the summer with few broadleafs and legumes mixed in…..then you’re gonna be dealing with a large nitrogen deficit going into the fall that must be overcome before it stops robbing it away from your fall crop as all of that carbon is trying to be decomposed…..To reduce that impact and bring everything into a better balance….you would want to do something like maybe spray a grass select herbicide at some point during the spring or summer with the goal of reducing the carbon output from the grasses…….Ideally I think you want about 1/3 grass…….1/3 broadleaf…….1/3 legume mix growing…..

I think having a solid stand of clover growing with your cereals really helps to feed the cereals nitrogen once it is well established too……If you look around in the pic close you’ll see some of the rye that was firing yellow on the ends but most of it is doing fine……Its wasn’t just yellowing though but I also noticed the individual rye plants were losing vigor/turgor pressure and not standing up erect……I don’t know if it means anything but some of the blades were spiraling too……All in all though everything has pretty good color to be running on its on……..We could definitely use a shot of rain soon

Something else I was thinking about I forgot to add……….What would have likely made my planting this year ideal would have been if I had come across the top of it the same day I spread my seed with some chicken litter……. Given the choice between a drill or a spreader truck…….I’d probably spend the money on the spreader truck or whatever equipment best fit the size and access of the food plots……You could take this to another level with some litter……… I’m saying this under the assumption that litter doesn’t hurt turkey populations and leaving that for another debate.

While we’re on this topic of nitrogen tie up……..Here’s something else that should likely be considered……..I think you have a window of time after the summer vegetation has been put to the ground that is optimal for getting your seed up and growing before this N tie up occurs…….After the summer “hay” has been on the ground for a couple weeks or so then it enters a phase of really sucking N where its not a good environment to establish new seedlings in…….I went back and spread a little more rye around the outside perimeter of the field a couple weeks after everything initially came up and I didn’t see anywhere near the establishment and jump for that seeding as my initial one. I think you need to put your seed out at the same time you put the hay to ground and then wait to do any other top sowing until after this decomposition drag has passed. It may sound a little funny but its like anything else in nature and there is a certain time when things are ripe to sow your seed and times when it aint.

Something about 257’s method for his plots to take note of in this regards is that he is not growing anything past his cereal grains growing off in the early summer…..which means that come fall planting time he is well past any nitrogen issues from currently decomposing carbon… We could debate over whether that is a good thing overall but for the sake of N tie up it looks to work well ….If you watch some videos on composting…..green and brown……etc……..All of that is done ahead of time and then applied to the planting bed so that you still get all of the benefits of high soil organic matter etc…but this decomposition process and nitrogen suck is not occurring and taking away from any current plant growth…….Its a little bit a different pickle though dealing with food plots compared to raised vegetable beds in this regards.

This area is a heavy red clay…….I keep it mowed during the summer for the most part……I’m not exactly sure what kind of grass it is…….but I use the area just to grow some additional clover forage and establishing it is as easy as just spreading it……This is what comes to my mind when we're having the discussion about all of the deep ripping and sich that needs to be done in order to be able to grow clover in clay…… ….…This will keep filling in and be a solid stand of crimson clover in another month or so…….This would be so easy for folks to do around their lakes, down their driveway ROW’s, etc……and provide lots of additional forage

The white clover is slooowly creeping in......This area was a blackberry thicket last spring...........

Another week's growth..........If you dont put out an exclusion cage then you cant really get a good idea of what is happening......The rest of the field looks the same day after day while the basket gets taller and taller......I'm very pleased with how everything is handling the browsing pressure.....I think that layer of thatch actually helps to keep the deer from eating the plants down to the dirt.....it leaves more or the plant intact to recover.

12/8 Update............Finally got some rain......It gets dry quick in this sand. The field was getting a little yellowy as a result but its rebounding quickly and already seems to be perking up.

My T&M field is yellowing a bit as well, because like yours it is mostly sand. I’ll be hitting it this week with a little N.

Turnips are the size of baseballs and the radishes are about a foot long now. Deer in it every night, in fact there were 2 bucks when I drove home late last night. Just wish it was in a place I could really hunt it, but I know it’s bringing lots of deer through my 40.

Personally, I'm not impressed even a little bit - but for someone looking to take shortcuts the clover came up well I will give you that.

After talking to my lease manager, it is clear I am not putting out enough fertilizer. I think its enough to get the plots up and running, but... even with nitrogen fixing plants growing, I still see some yellowing. I have clover growing on nearly all the plots now, and expect that to help as we progress.

What is getting pounded right now are brassica's. And my whitetail clover/fusion plots. I just broadcast 12 pounds of plot spike clover, 9 pounds of Fusion, and 300 pounds of Triple 17 last weekend on some of my fields. I have 18 pounds of Whitetail clover coming today and plan to broadcast that and get some urea.

Basically I keep broadcasting something, fusion, whitetail clover/fusion, Durana or Plot Spike through hunting season, especially in places where its thin, or in fields that are being pounded. Goal is to be all clover in the spring. Then I can cut, fertilize, spray and maintain.

I could cut and stripe that with my flail mower.....LOL!!

CNC I like your edges around your plots. That was a recommendation our biologist made, but we have a hard time with that, because most of ours are in "woods" to have natural vegetation around the edges. We dont' see lots of deer in our fields, but from the feedback I am getting, people are seeing deer in the fields this year.

Next year we have to work on getting stands pulled back off them better. We just ran out of time this year.

Really about the only issue I'm having is just a matter of scale......I need a bigger field to keep up with the browsing pressure.....

What kind of clover did you plant? My lease manager said I should try balansa and frosty berseem, along with crimson of course. I mainly plant whitetail, Durana and plot spike. The Durana seems to be a little slower out of the gate than the other two.

And I have the same issue on my fields with mostly clover. High usage. I have gone back and broadcast additional seed and then added fertilizer last weekend ahead of the rain.