Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum Speaking of data

I don't have a problem with "evolving opinions" either, I know mine do over time. However, have they evolved to the point that we do not need limits on the number of bucks a hunter can kill from either state??

This may not be the popular thing to say on ALdeer but.......49er made a good point here. Like many have said, TV has ruined deer hunting for the worst imho. I spend 100's hours and 4 figures a year practicing QDM the best I can but I totally agree with that statement and it's gotten much worse in the last 10 years.

Even neighbors who try to practice some sort of QDM can't get along, let alone neighbors who do and one that don't.

I have a great club, just 8 of us although there has been as many as 12. We are all great friends and even we have differences sometimes. QDM is some to blame, yes. TV shows even more. QDM is good and works, imho. The hunting on my place is 110% better than 6 years ago.

Kinda ironic I guess, that most of the biggest bucks I get called to score come from meat clubs or simply areas that aren't "managed". Managed clubs do have better balance with buck ages but I think in turn has created lazy hunters. Most of the really big bucks I see in trucks are guys that are still "meat" hunters but they hunt hard, mostly because they don't have food plots around every curve.

You should post your findings in the human behavior forum, we're talking serious deer hunting in here.

Good un... Skinny could hook him up with his own forum. When he's on line he could have an avatar that says "The Doctor Is In".

Qdm attitude again. Ignore 'em and they just keep coming back.

2dogs,


Skinny's busy enough as it is.

We probably should just leave each other alone. I think that was Skinny's reason for having all the different sections we've got now.

Besides, you have to have a degree to call youself a doctor. I'm about as much of a doctor as you are a professional widlife biologist. Only difference is, I know I'm not a doctor.

The problem with QDM is the fact that to keep it fresh QDMA has to keep it ever evolving on TV and in print in order to keep membership growing.

It is all about $$$ if things are not ever changing and evolving then it seems stagnant and they lose members so they have to keep things fresh. It a double edged sword. We get some cool new research and learn some new stuff but mostly it all about generating $$$.

It's the same way I feel about coyote research. You can research coyotes until your blue in the face but you will always have to manage them in localized populations just like you do deer herds. The only reason it became such a huge story is researchers, writers and the like saw lots of $$$ behind the subject.

Are you sure he is now opposed to Tn.'s buck restrictions? I wouldn't want to speak for him or anyone else but it seems like you may have taken some of his statements out of context.

WIth the information that Tn. has gathered and with the increase in the percentage of mature bucks being taken I can't imagine why anyone with a dog in the fight would object to their system.

Back when QDMA was young, I found out about them at a deer seminar sponsored by the University of Alabama. I had attended several of the UA seminars when Coy Hollis was there.

Later, when the QDMA got started in Alabama, I was one of the first to attend their meetings. It cost about $25 bucks, and they signed anybody that attended up as a member. So I guess you might say, I got drafted because I wanted to go see what was going on.

I quit at the first meeting where they did a survey in one of the meetings to see if we wanted to support the AWF's propsosed buck limit/antler restrictions. I never went back.

Now I couldn't afford it if I wanted to:



So, yeah, the QDMA is evolving.

Are you sure I said anything about Tn's buck restrictions? Talk about taking something somebody said out of context!!! Sheesh!

I'm sure you can't imagine anybody not liking something you like. Once again, that's the point.

Most of the people I've put on ignore status have taken things I've said and tried to make it look like I said something I didn't say. You're doing that too, so now I'm going to ignore your posts as well. If you can't defend your position with anything better than that, I don't want to read it.

Do us both a favor. Click on my screen name to view my profile. You'll see the option "ignore this user". It would be nice if you would do that. Thanks.

Bye!

He didn't say it but I suggested it and you stated that BSK has had a change of heart indicating that (you believe) he does NOT support TN's buck limits - maybe agree with you that there should be NO limits on the number of bucks killed by a hunter:



You're just looking to pick a fight - bored or something?

Let me say exactly what I did say one more time:



And here's his post I was referring to:

BSK,


Thread name: Re: BSK February 20, 2012 21:25


You participated in that thread, so don't give me no crap like I'm making something up that I ain't.

If you want to know how BSK feels about something, ask BSK.

He's learned to use the "ignore this user" feature like I have according to what he said in that same thread:


BSK,
February 20, 2012 20:53


If you don't like my opinions, you don't have to read them:

Click on 49er's profile:

You are getting too easy, to predictable. And when someone rebutts you or "steps on your toes" , it's hit the ignore key.

Be honest dog.

You and I disagree and I've not ignored you. It's the constant personal attacks without adding anything of substance to the thread that I find annoying.

I can tolerate opposing opinions, but that old "qdm, it's my way or no way at all" attitude is what I find intolerable.

Do they teach people to have that attitude at QDMA now or something?

There you go again,you know better, I don't think that's what QDMA teaches. And I don't force my ideas on anyone. No, I'm not a professional wildlife biologist, but I have a Phd...... in managing my own property, with great success. I lead by example. People often ASK me questions and I answer, no charge.

QDMA is like anything else, you can plot it on a bell curve, there are a few extremes on both sides and most are in the middle. Aldeer has extremes too.

That you do my friend!

49er is grasping for support

At one time (a decade or so ago) I supported antler restrictions in specific areas. I no longer do. I don't support them because 1) the don't work well biologically; and 2) unless absolutely biologically necessary, I don't support the idea of the state telling hunters which bucks to shoot (legislated QDM).

I supported TN's move from an 11 buck limit to a 2 buck limit in 1998. Since then, the buck limit has slowly liberalized to a statewide 3 buck limit. I have no problem with that (although still favor a 2 buck limit).

However, after a full review of the annual harvest data and hunter opinion surveys run every other year by our wildlife agency, I'm fully convinced the drop in buck limits played only a supporting role in TN's slow but steady improvement in standing-crop buck age structure and harvested buck age structure. I believe (and the data is very supportive of the idea) that a combination of increasing buck population against a stagnated buck harvest total, in combination with changes in hunter attitude, are driving the improvements. In essence, buck harvest totals peaked and have remained steady since the late 1990s. However, the buck population continued to grow beyond that point. With more total bucks in the pre-hunt population each year, but unchanging buck harvests, more and more bucks are surviving hunting season each year. The result is an increased buck age structure. In addition, hunter attitudes are changing. A growing percentage of hunters are voluntarily passing young bucks. This can be seen in a significant portion of county harvest records, in that the percent of harvested bucks in the older age classes exceeds what is in the population. Considering older bucks are less active during daylight and more skilled at avoiding hunters, if hunters were shooting the first antlered buck of opportunity, the harvested buck age structure would highly favor yearling bucks. Yet now we have many countied where only 30-40% of harvested bucks are yearlings. That strongly indicates hunter selectivity.

In my opinion, the only role the lower buck limit played in fostering these improvements is that it fostered the idea of "protecting" bucks from over-harvest, and when buck age structures began to noticably improve in the years after the lowered limit (even though the lower limit was not the direct cause of this), hunters began to see that limiting buck harvests really will increase buck age structure, prompting more and more hunters to be selective (by age) in their harvests. In essence, success bred success, even though the actual reason for the earlier success was not really caused by the lower buck limit. Through more older bucks being seen and killed, hunters began to believe that passed young bucks in one year would survive the season and be available for harvest as older bucks in following years, hence they gained the confidence to start passing young bucks; i.e. success bred success.

Another fact to consider is even with a 3 buck limit, only around 1 in 3 of TN's 200,000 deer hunters kill even 1 buck each year, and only 1-2% kill their limit of 3 bucks. Considering those numbers, and the previously discussed data, I honestly believe that in many TN counties, the buck limit plays virtually no role in what hunters are harvesting. The limit could be changed to 20 bucks, and buck age structure would continue to improve because hunters are being so selective about what they harvest.

In parts of TN, I think buck limits play virtually no role in what hunters are killing.