We recently had a somewhat heated debate at the military base I hunt on about the "4 on one side" rule. That's been the requirement for the past few years (with NO other stipulations), and it has devolved into a full-on slaughter of every young buck with "4 on one side". I do not know the exact total harvest, but I'm thinking there were about 100 bucks killed this season (+,- 10), and of that total number I would bet my entire year's income there weren't 5 bucks over 110". This is a place that for the past 15 years has given up MULTIPLE 140" bucks every year (two over 160" the last 3 seasons). Just a general assumption, normally we'd kill maybe 25 to 40 bucks in the 120+" class, I don't think we had a single deer that big this time (maybe one). There is zero difference otherwise, no seasonal or habitat changes, nothing. Believe this or not, I didn't SEE nor even HEAR one single coyote this whole season.

Even though we sell roughly 250-300 licenses each year, in reality there's only about 75-100 hunters out there for most of the season (at any one time anyway). If there is a difference, it's that there's a substantial influx of new guys that started LAST YEAR (being out there as long as I have you become something of a brotherhood). You know everybody, we have an active Facebook page, etc. I will say we had a constant, and I mean constant, clash on the Facebook page about "Guys, cool it with killing all the piss-willy bucks!!!", then "By Golly, it's legal, so I'll kill whatever the @#$@# I want to!!!" If you think there's no repercussions to you "killing whatever you want to", you're dead wrong. Period. Not one single person I've talked to even reports to "secretly" seeing a "big" buck this year. They are NOT THERE.

By the way, this place has long been under Auburn University DMP. They do multiple deer studies each year, nighttime infrared trips, all sorts of stuff. The top 3 management tools are: trigger control, trigger control, trigger control. Nothing else matters. "4 points on one side" just
assures your best young bucks get killed early.

Let me gues....you're in either year 4 or 5 of this "4 on one side" nonsense. Fact of the matter is you are not seeing them because they are not there anymore. The best bucks in every upcoming year class are being killed/high graded out as 1-3 yr olds. If you repeatedly kill all of your young 8 points in successive years you've wiped out the deer that should be your larger antlered, older age class bucks 3-5 yrs down the road. It is a very easy and quick way to screw up a deer herd both genetically and age structure wise unless significant trigger restraint is exercised which it sounds like is not happening. Sounds like AU is well on their way to screwing up a good thing. Is Gus Malzahn also running AU's DMAP program???????

High grading just like they learned in Mississippi - is a disaster for the buck population.

Only way to improve the buck population is age restriction.

I never go by points.
When I here people talk about points alone it unnerves me.

High grading just like they learned in Mississippi - is a disaster for the buck population.

Only way to improve the buck population is age restriction.

I never go by points.
When I here people talk about points alone it unnerves me.

Auburn isn't screwing it up, it's the dumbarses who can't keep their booger hooker off the trigger. Deer management is more about hunter management than anything else.

And that makes no sense at all...

It makes perfect sense. Really the most endangered deer in the woods is a pretty 2 year old. They ain’t real smart yet but there are a bunch of hunters that will let spikes or little scraggly young bucks of the same age class walk but they will turn that pretty 2 year old buck with good genes inside out quick as they see him. It is exactly the same as high grading timber like previously stated

The hard part about letting bucks walk is the realization that you won't see them next year. Between neighbors,predators, poachers and disease, most will never reach maturity.

In a season I may see up to 25 bucks that I think are 3 1/2. Of course I see a LOT more of 2 1/2 and younger. I don't see that many 4 1/2+ deer. I don't know if their patterns change, they become totally nocturnal or what, but often I don't even get them on camera. They seem to often disappear after 3 1/2. We (me and a few others) try to shoot mature deer but a lot of even 2 1/2 year old deer will meet our standards. While I pass up deer that I think are 3 1/2 or younger, it is tough when the next guy doesn't.

I guess we try to have a balance between seldom shooting anything and killing a few. Every year, we have a couple really good deer killed and everything else, in my opinion, is marginal. We also have some older class bucks that are killed that aren't that impressive, as far as the rack is concerned.

The older I get the more I am concerned about enjoying the hunt. If that means killing a buck in the heat of the moment, that is hot on the trail of a doe, then so be it. I also enjoy watching deer and am usually very slow to pull the trigger. Whatever the case it, the simple fact is that not many bucks make it to 5 1/2+ and those that do didn't get there by being careless.

I was glad to see the thread come up and wondered if it would lead to a good discussion.

I used to read on age class stats, high grading, replacement rates etc.... We came up with criteria for killing that seemed fair for most everyone.

We decided on age class of 3.5 and the buck had to meet 1 of 3 criteria

3.5 years old
or a
20 inch main beam
or a
15 inch spread

After gathering data we determined the majority of bucks that had 20 inch main beams or 15 inch spreads generally were 3.5 or older on our lease.
Occasionally some younger bucks would have equal to or better than what our average was. For the most part some of the better hunters would let those walk realizing their potential.

Getting a number of deer hunters to agree s harder than herding cats.

I heard some guys from Westervelt stating that a club with more than 10 hunters was almost impossible to get them all to agree.

I've come to the conclusion that the term "trophy hunter" is being used to mean something it doesn't actually mean. I do not know, have never known, a "trophy hunter". I do not know anybody who only hunts the one single very largest deer on their property, or has some unrealistic expectation of only shooting "5yr old" bucks that "score" a certain minimum.

I am not a "trophy" hunter, but I'm a "rack" hunter. That term makes more sense to me and is realistic in Alabama. I don't have specifics, and even if I did it would vary based on where I am. I often say "I don't kill something I wouldn't mount". Some people talk about "don't kill anythin you aren't going to eat" (as in you are wasteful and irresponsible if you killed a deer and just threw away the carcass or otherwise made no use of the meat) Well I feel the EXACT same way about a buck's antlers. If I'm just going to discard (not treasure) the rack, then why the @#$#@ did I shoot him????? Am I that immature and irresponsible?? I just couldn't control my foolish excitement, so I shot a 12" pencil-horned 6pt and simply cut his skull plate off and threw it in the shed. That's just like shooting a doe and dumping her in the ditch as you leave the club.

On Choccolocco WMA I'd probably kill a 14" wide 8pt. However I wouldn't kill that deer on Barbour WMA. On the military base I hunt it would have to be a legit "mounter" (my arbitrary rules are 16" with better than average mass and tine length). But then again there are some hunts where it happens so fast and exciting that I kill a 15-1/4" unimpressive 8pt. But it's basically a grown deer with a rack that would satisfy 98% of Alabama hunters. I hope that makes sense.

I've come to the conclusion that the term "trophy hunter" is being used to mean something it doesn't actually mean. I do not know, have never known, a "trophy hunter". I do not know anybody who only hunts the one single very largest deer on their property, or has some unrealistic expectation of only shooting "5yr old" bucks that "score" a certain minimum.

I am not a "trophy" hunter, but I'm a "rack" hunter. That term makes more sense to me and is realistic in Alabama. I don't have specifics, and even if I did it would vary based on where I am. I often say "I don't kill something I wouldn't mount". Some people talk about "don't kill anythin you aren't going to eat" (as in you are wasteful and irresponsible if you killed a deer and just threw away the carcass or otherwise made no use of the meat) Well I feel the EXACT same way about a buck's antlers. If I'm just going to discard (not treasure) the rack, then why the @#$#@ did I shoot him????? Am I that immature and irresponsible?? I just couldn't control my foolish excitement, so I shot a 12" pencil-horned 6pt and simply cut his skull plate off and threw it in the shed. That's just like shooting a doe and dumping her in the ditch as you leave the club.

On Choccolocco WMA I'd probably kill a 14" wide 8pt. However I wouldn't kill that deer on Barbour WMA. On the military base I hunt it would have to be a legit "mounter" (my arbitrary rules are 16" with better than average mass and tine length). But then again there are some hunts where it happens so fast and exciting that I kill a 15-1/4" unimpressive 8pt. But it's basically a grown deer with a rack that would satisfy 98% of Alabama hunters. I hope that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. Really the most endangered deer in the woods is a pretty 2 year old. They ain’t real smart yet but there are a bunch of hunters that will let spikes or little scraggly young bucks of the same age class walk but they will turn that pretty 2 year old buck with good genes inside out quick as they see him. It is exactly the same as high grading timber like previously stated