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Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: Beer Belly] #2490029
05/23/18 04:20 PM
05/23/18 04:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 218
Ne alabama
2
2walnuts Offline
4 point
2walnuts  Offline
4 point
2
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 218
Ne alabama
You guys down south are screwed...The mills use dealers to be there procurement dept. and do the dirty work for them.That system is ripe for kickbacks as corruption. I talk to all the large sawmills in North Al and Southern Tn and there #1 concern is the lack of loggers. Just go to PLM classes and it looks like a senior citizen meeting.

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: Beer Belly] #2490034
05/23/18 04:28 PM
05/23/18 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
14 point
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
I'm not sure blacklisting happens any more. I haven't heard that in probably 10 years.

To be a dealer at the Prattville mill to start with you have to $2 million liability, $1 million automotive, and workmans comp. insurances. That's just to get them start talking to you. Then you have to be able to supply a steady stream of wood to the mill. That steady stream of wood is what will eliminate individual land owners or a logger that is one and done.

I have also been told that a REALLY nice shotgun could get a dealership but I don't know about that.

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: treemydog] #2490035
05/23/18 04:28 PM
05/23/18 04:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,900
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,900
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by treemydog
I am not sure the Prattville, Selma, Childersburg bigger mills where I used to work would give a dealership to a 'temporary' transient logger. Heck, I heard stories of them denying dealerships to timber buyers that broke off of established dealers to start their own company... and the only thing the mills care of the landowners is their last name, to name the tract for their internal auditing systems.

Why would he want to leave his own high production area to come cut his friend's wood anyway? Doesn't he have quota to fill at the other mills he hauls to? If he drops a substantial amount of that quota (cutting his friend's timber for 5, 6, 7 months and hauling to other mills) it likely would be detrimental to his home base of operations. In other words, the logger's regular mills would be pissed to miss that guy's production and likely would punish him severely when he came back by limiting him quota... or blacklisting them from the mill altogether.

2Dogs: you are probably shaking your head at my response, but this is my knee-jerk reaction.


Heck maybe the logger from another area is part owner in the land. You saying mills cut you off for not moving enough timber? Effectively penalizing you? In our area the last thing the paper mill or saw mills sawing grade logs would do is piss off one of their major producers. That sounds like one F'ed up place down there.

When our paper mill puts on a quota, it's to cut the loggers back. Say in summer when it's dry they may be covered up and have a full yard, they'll cut the loggers back. Or if they are on shut down they may "cut them off" . But they just move saw logs and when quota is raised they start hauling more to the paper mill.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: 2Dogs] #2490040
05/23/18 04:35 PM
05/23/18 04:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
14 point
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by treemydog
I am not sure the Prattville, Selma, Childersburg bigger mills where I used to work would give a dealership to a 'temporary' transient logger. Heck, I heard stories of them denying dealerships to timber buyers that broke off of established dealers to start their own company... and the only thing the mills care of the landowners is their last name, to name the tract for their internal auditing systems.

Why would he want to leave his own high production area to come cut his friend's wood anyway? Doesn't he have quota to fill at the other mills he hauls to? If he drops a substantial amount of that quota (cutting his friend's timber for 5, 6, 7 months and hauling to other mills) it likely would be detrimental to his home base of operations. In other words, the logger's regular mills would be pissed to miss that guy's production and likely would punish him severely when he came back by limiting him quota... or blacklisting them from the mill altogether.

2Dogs: you are probably shaking your head at my response, but this is my knee-jerk reaction.


Heck maybe the logger from another area is part owner in the land. You saying mills cut you off for not moving enough timber? Effectively penalizing you? In our area the last thing the paper mill or saw mills sawing grade logs would do is piss off one of their major producers. That sounds like one F'ed up place down there.

When our paper mill puts on a quota, it's to cut back. Say in summer when it's dry they may be covered up and have a full yard, they'll cut the loggers back. Or if they are on shut down they may "cut them off" . But they just move saw logs and when quota is raised the start hauling more to the paper mill.



Let me say, for us paper mills and saw mills usually are very different animals in the way they do business. At least that's the way I see it.

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: centralala] #2490049
05/23/18 04:45 PM
05/23/18 04:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,900
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,900
Boxes Cove
There's money in farming now, any of those folks that planted pines in the black belt going back to farming? Maybe going to cattle?



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: 2Dogs] #2490061
05/23/18 04:56 PM
05/23/18 04:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
14 point
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
There's money in farming now, any of those folks that planted pines in the black belt going back to farming? Maybe going to cattle?


Yes, I have seen some. In fact, I have done it. Not to make a living but took 25 yo pine clear cut, cleaned it up, fenced it and now have cows on it. But I have seen some bigger farmers do it. As bad as we make it sound here, it is still good to have a diversified portfolio with timber, cows, and row crops. I'm of the opinion that EVERY acre has to be producing something. I don't care if it's renting mobile home lots or a pond leased to a fishing club, it's got to be turning $$

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: Beer Belly] #2490077
05/23/18 05:15 PM
05/23/18 05:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,340
Jackson County
B
BrentM Offline
Mr. Turkey
BrentM  Offline
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B
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Jackson County
The paper mills up here operate a lot like the sawmills in the south........

But all you need to be able to haul logs to any sawmill up this way is a pickup truck and a little pull behind trailer

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: BrentM] #2490085
05/23/18 05:27 PM
05/23/18 05:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,900
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,900
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by BrentM
The paper mills up here operate a lot like the sawmills in the south........

But all you need to be able to haul logs to any sawmill up this way is a pickup truck and a little pull behind trailer


No telling how many BF feet of good logs are unloaded off farm trucks and trailers pulled by pick-ups up here. Good ol country folks and free enterprise . flag



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: BrentM] #2490109
05/23/18 05:47 PM
05/23/18 05:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,179
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,179
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted by BrentM
The paper mills up here operate a lot like the sawmills in the south........

But all you need to be able to haul logs to any sawmill up this way is a pickup truck and a little pull behind trailer



It was that way down here until about 25 years ago. There were lots of big stik trucks and such around, and a whole lot more people making a living cutting and hauling. Lots of folks did it as a sideline too.

But the mills decided to do away with those people and they did. And they bought out the smaller mills just to shut them down.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: Beer Belly] #2490115
05/23/18 05:54 PM
05/23/18 05:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 218
Ne alabama
2
2walnuts Offline
4 point
2walnuts  Offline
4 point
2
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 218
Ne alabama
Ive bought logs out the back of a brand new station wagon ,horse drawn wagon and one time a farmer just pulled some logs down the road with his tractor... He needed some beer money!!!

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: Beer Belly] #2490179
05/23/18 07:45 PM
05/23/18 07:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,340
Jackson County
B
BrentM Offline
Mr. Turkey
BrentM  Offline
Mr. Turkey
B
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,340
Jackson County
Had a farmer pull in this evening with $3400 worth of walnut logs on a little flatbed farm truck with some homemade standards made of cedar posts stuck in the sides. Everybody seemed happy at the end of the transaction. Guess north Alabama is still MAGA country as far as the timber business is concerned.

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: Geeb] #2490817
05/24/18 02:37 PM
05/24/18 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,170
Florence, Al
A
AlabamaSwamper Offline
10 point
AlabamaSwamper  Offline
10 point
A
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,170
Florence, Al
Originally Posted by Geeb
Originally Posted by AlabamaSwamper
At $4-$5 a ton for pine, it ain't hardly worth cutting pines anymore


Do you mean for pulp?
I just signed a contract for $6 per ton on a first thinning, so all pulp; however it is a good bit more than that for chip-n-saw or saw timber.



That's all pine will sell for here is pulp. Friend of mine just cleared 25 acres of big pines. Probably 40 years old.

Nobody is buying here. And with one pulp mill within 4 hours now, pulp is hard to sell too.


BTR Scorer in NW Alabama

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2490869
05/24/18 03:35 PM
05/24/18 03:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Originally Posted by poorcountrypreacher

But the mills decided to do away with those people and they did. And they bought out the smaller mills just to shut them down.




That is an interesting statement from the antitrust perspective.

Another would be a SAW mill not accepting someone's hardwood logs that they deliver themselves (in the southern part of the State) (or anywhere really).

Last edited by WmHunter; 05/24/18 03:40 PM.

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: Beer Belly] #2490967
05/24/18 05:14 PM
05/24/18 05:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,612
Elmore County
T
treemydog Online content
8 point
treemydog  Online Content
8 point
T
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,612
Elmore County
The AntiTrust theory isn't a new one. Even folks in the timber business have been claiming that "under their breaths" for a while. Like I said... you piss off the evil empire, and you were going to need a lot of salt and pepper.... And I didn't want to be eating any loads of wood.

I'm a forester, educated at a couple of top-tier southeastern universities in the discipline. I've urged landowners before to fence in at least some of their tracts and put cows or sheep or goats or something on it. At least when those markets go south, you can slaughter and eat well. I can't eat 60' pulpwood.


You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?
Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: Beer Belly] #2491226
05/24/18 10:21 PM
05/24/18 10:21 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20,017
PDL, Fl
T
timbercruiser Offline
Freak of Nature
timbercruiser  Offline
Freak of Nature
T
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20,017
PDL, Fl
One of the Alabama plywood mills use to make a nice profit by culling logs from loads, wouldn't pay for them, and then peel the logs anyway. Everybody lost, except the mill.

Re: Timber Harvest Payment? [Re: timbercruiser] #2491481
05/25/18 01:11 PM
05/25/18 01:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,612
Elmore County
T
treemydog Online content
8 point
treemydog  Online Content
8 point
T
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,612
Elmore County
Originally Posted by timbercruiser
One of the Alabama plywood mills use to make a nice profit by culling logs from loads, wouldn't pay for them, and then peel the logs anyway. Everybody lost, except the mill.


That was pretty standard ... we get culled 300-700 lbs on almost every load. Jam up, slick pine logs... all cut to spec with no undersize sticks would get culled all the time.


You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?
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