In south Bama there is a shortage of delivery points for hardwood logs, there is also the assumption that south Bama hardwood log quality isn't good.

I can see why gobbler gets to light fires in the LA hardwood .

Brent, I think you are 100% correct that the system down here is flawed from the perspective of the small landowners, but I don't know of a thing we can do about it. A few big companies control the mills, and they set the price. The laws of supply and demand don't apply in regards to the price of the final product.

The only solution would be more mills being built, and we are seeing a little progress in that. I think one of the big problems that we have is there is nobody trying to recruit new mills. The forestry organizations that you would think would be doing that are primarily controlled by people who work for those few companies, and they have no incentive to work towards new mills.

I think there are fortunes to be made by absorbing the excess supply of forestry products in central and south AL, but there doesn't seem to be much interest. When a company does decide to invest in forestry in the southeast, they usually just buy existing mills instead of building new ones. I'm not sure this problem has a solution.

Its fair until you get paid for 30 loads tickets, but the logger cut and hauled 35. It's a fairly common occurrence... I'd suggest counting every truck that leaves the tract, or well hidden game cams to count the trucks for you.

Preacher I agree with everything you say as usual. There are a few loggers down that way that haul good logs north and make a good living doing so.
Biggest problem I’ve ever run into down there is the culture is “hardwood is hardwood” and most folks just honestly don’t know what a good log is to start with.

This has happened to me more than once:
Logger gets on a tract of good logs. Hauls it north and gets a big check and thinks the hardwood mills up north are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Next tract he gets on is a bunch of limby post oak and scarlet oak that’s full of mineral and smells like cat piss...... he hauls it north and it brings less than half of what the good stuff brought.
Logger thinks the mill has screwed him over and vows never to return again.
Nobody’s fault just a lack of understanding

Brent hit the nail on the head. Someone needs to put on a log grading class down south .There a very good grade logs down south.When we got low on logs in southern TN I would go down to Hazelhurst Ga. and bring back some fine hardwood grade logs.

If you Alabama yankee hardwood guys are so sure about your assumptions, why don’t you come down here and exploit the poor hardwood market? We would love to have more mills. Come on down...

Sounds like there's already plenty of exploitation going on down there.

Here, we HAVE to go through a dealer. The dealers hold all the cards and not just anyone can become a dealer. It's set up through the mills so, yes, there is opportunity for shady dealings. The dealers get the load tickets for the mills. One dealer may get 50 tickets (loads) per week or 500 tickets. But a logger MUST have a ticket for each load. The dealers gets the wood price from the mill. They buy the timber and send in the loggers. The mill sends the dealer the pay and in turn the dealer pays the landowner and the loggers. If timber prices go down, between the three (,landowner, logger, and dealer) which 2 do you think take the biggest hit? Remember, the dealer is the one dividing up the money. Also, if there is only 50 tickets a week for say 4 crews, that's about 13 loads a week per crew. Hard to stay in business with equipment cost,fuel, and labor hauling 13 loads a week.

How much does 1 load of mature pines sell for? In general? I dont care how you slice it....just in general what would a load of pines go for? I heard a land owner generally gets 2k for each load that goes off his land. Thats him gettin paid by the logger. Is that about rite?

Not no, but hell no. Sorry. USED to be average land in Alabama for mixed clearcut was $650/ac.

There is too many variables. Poles, chip-,n-saw, pulp. Mature tree could fall into several category depending on the tree and the market. Poles should be the highest but last i heard there was no market for them. So, if no mill will take them, they'll probably be sent as chip-n-saw. A wild guess, and that's all it is, A WILD GUESS, would be $250 per load of pulp and $450 per load of chip-n-saw. That's a wild guess for my area.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard a landowner say "I'll just cut the stuff down and haul it to the mill myself."

I was always nice about it, but inside I was laughing... IP at Prattville, Selma, Resolute at Childersburg, and any of the corporate big pine ply or saw mills ain't gonna let you turn off the highway onto their entrance road without a dealership, a Professional Logger's Certificate number, and tons of liability insurance. It was always great to hear the 'self logging' argument!

$1,000 to the landowner.

$650? I’ve sold 5 sales this year over $2000/ac in south Alabama piney woods. One sale over $3,500. Strong volumes, not prices.

I've gotten $1200 for a load of poles before. And I've gotten just over $100 for a load of pulpwood. And most everything in between at various times for various cuts. I can't imagine anything down this way bringing $2k for stumpage for a single load.

Can you even sale poles now? Last I dealt with the poles couldn't be sold or very few. When it's down to taking very few they get real picky with quality.

Pole markets are much more finicky but there is good money in them. X poles are the highest value product I deal with on a regular basis.

I said average, not the exception for mature pines with logs or poles or even lowland grade logs. I have bought a tract before that on three acres had 70 cords/ac and all pines were above 18" and over 90' tall. Rare tract 5 miles south of the TN line.

Sometimes i work around a loggin company around huntsville. They are always joking about how they aint makin any money and will be lucky to break even. But they have all brand new equipment? And purchase more during some jobs. Buying not renting. Their crew cant work overtime i know. They gotta be doing good or they wouldnt have 3 or 4 crews and nice equipment i would think.

I know the market changes but if pulp wood pays around 6 bucks a ton, i think i would stop and start hauling scrap metal!

If i had land that only logged for 650 an acre thats terrible. I had rather rent a trackhoe and push the whole tree over and burn it than be left with stumps from logging? The loggers have to make a good profit or it aint worth it in my opinion. Fuel, equipment moving, low boy, workers, equipment, maintenance costs, insurance.. It aint nothing to burn through a few grand of fuel every week. Sounds like a terrible gamble or it just dont add up...i guess thats why i only know of one loggin company around here and thats milam. I havent seen another company in years around here. Every truck i see is milam. They must do good on some jobs and break even on others just to stay on top and keep employees paid