I get that coyotes are a problem. My question is this: if coyotes are the black plague that most claim on the deer population, how are any deer left in Texas? Does TX have very conservative deer harvest laws that restrict hunter effects, that take into account the heavy predator aspect? I would assume that if coyotes are hammering our fawn recruitment here, then they should be doing likewise elsewhere? AND.. it should only take a phone call for the DNR to talk to Texas Parks and Wildlife to see how they 'manage' a heavy deer mortality via predators in regard to how they set the limits on hunter harvests.

I'm not trying to be a smart-rump... I'm just curious how a coyote population can massively affect a deer herd in one state, and not so much in another (where they've been in superior numbers for way longer than they have been in 'wooded states' east of the Mississippi)?

I'm not from TX or have ever been, so they might be squalling the same sob story everyone east of the big river is about them... I just might not be hearing it.

I may well be wrong.....

But, I don’t think there is any other State that allows each licensed hunter to kill approx 120 antlerless deer each season.

Whoever was ridiculous enough to.compare the seat belt law is clueless. Seatbelt law is NEEDED because some idiot doesnt belt his children in and they die in wreck. My paramedic nephew has pronouced 3 children in last 3 months because their idiotic parents didnt put seat belts on them. Crap one parent lived because they wearing their seatbelt.

Hogwild : Tennessee - 3 a day in Unit L.

You "could" do it. No one does, though. Just like 120 bucks in the buck-a-day days here. You could, but no one ever did.

Isn’t the goal in TN’s example to lower the population?

That is the intent of most antlerless harvest programs.

Here in AL, we are ONLY worried about bucks (both antlered and greenbacked) and the Regulations reflect that. We only require limits on bucks. BUT, we are so well educated on deer management, we can all make our own decisions on how many antlerless deer to take.

I'm the ridiculous one. The seatbelt law is in affect, correct?

*effect

I'm there too. I don't need no stupid law to protect me from myself.
Of course I buckle the kids in. And my granddaughter has one of the best carseats you can buy.
But I didn't need the damn government to tell me that.

"BUT, we are so well educated on deer management, we can all make our own decisions on how many antlerless deer to take."

NOT! A few are, the majority aren't.

"Compliance a product of Alabama's hunting culture"....well he certainly didn't have to make that one up on his own.

And herein lies another conflict. What is the end goal by Sykes? How can one say they want a balanced deer ratio and limit bucks to three while virtually having unfettered doe harvest, while neither one can currently be quantified by the system in place.

While I totally do not agree with the system in place and am an advocate for less regulation, I do feel that Chuck is in an unwinnable position. Managing people isn't as easy as managing deer.

When faced with options about data....Fisheries and wildlife...bad data is worse than no data! Period! That's what Chuck is frustrated with...

And that is why I think it is unwinnable. Alabama values of liberty (i.e. less government intervention) trumps Chuck's need to count dead deer for a lot of people I know.

It's obvious, quite a few on this board can't agree on the best route. However (regardless of my personal opinion), I am convinced that the majority of people on this board and those that I come in contact with, would opt for fewer does killed and a HIP type survey in lieu of our current system.

Chuck is that you?? Welcome to Aldeer!

No, Chuck is poor so on his trips to TX, NE, and KS right now, he doesn't have wifi. He will use a payphone to phone in his kills though.

JAC: Cool your jets... I was not arguing against the seatbelt law... I was merely using it as an example of a similar mandated law. You drive all your life without the seatbelt, and then all of a sudden the GOV'MT says you have to wear it or else. Of course there is going to be backlash and "I ain't doing it mentality". That's human nature. NOBODY likes to be told what to do, especially if it goes from no checking and reporting to volunteer reporting (useless), to 100% mandatory checking and reporting in a few years.

The reasons are different, but the course of action and public response is very similar. It took my dad 10 or so years and several tickets before he 'clicked it' each time he got behind the wheel. A high percentage of deer hunters in AL are doing the same with GC... esp, when they cannot see an immediate use for what the info is supposed to provide.

This is the biggest problem within the entire DCNR, and has been for at least 30 years.
They continue trying to manage people and politics, instead of managing the resources.

[quote=2Dogs]

Don't be an ass. [quote=2Dogs ]

That is this guys posting style.

He has a pattern of being a smart alecky apologist for Chuch Sykes, the DCNR and GC.

Since when was there NO data at all???

How do we know the data is bad? If it is bad, how will we know when it gets good?