Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by jawbone
Originally Posted by Clem
Quote
No, you don't have to stop and answer questions


Not going to get into the MPD situation, but instead ask about this above stated by Jawbone.

I may not have to stop and answer questions if a police officer asks me to talk with him, or "come here" or something else. And as he said, if there is no suspicion that I have done anything then I shouldn't be detained.

But I'll guarantee you a brazillion dollars that if I'm walking down a street anytime of the day or night and a police officer wants to talk with me and I refuse, walk away, decline, tell him to FO or anything else OTHER than stopping and talking with him, he/she will not go peacefully away and say, "Well, that's his right to walk away."

That's unrealistic. Walking away and ignoring an officer's request -- even if legal -- will put many if not almost all of them on "Hmm, what's up with him?" alert and things will get worse. Guaranteed.

Yeah, I may be legally OK saying "No" or ignoring them but if I walk away, or run, or anything else then things aren't going to go well.


Absolutely that will cause the officer to look deeper in his bag of tools, so to speak. For example telling an officer to FO is technically Disorderly Conduct, a criminal offense in Alabama. It won't go far in court, but it is still technically an arrestable offense. Also in my municipality we have a very seldom used Ordinance called Failure to Obey the Reasonable Demand of a Police Officer. The lawyers jump up and down when it is used, but it has always been upheld as far as any of them wanted to push it.

Situations like this is why we need the best educated officers we can get. Educate them so they understand and appreciate civil and constitutional rights. This takes money, both to hire the best people and also to educate them. Sadly, the politicians can't understand the importance of this, thus we have so many officers that don't understand or appreciate where the line is between good police work and violating civil rights, and it is a very fine line, believe me.


Telling an officer to fuck off is not disorderly conduct. Not only have a won trials on that issue personally, I know the case law from the supreme court of Alabama.

L.M.A.W v. State
Swann v. Huntsville
Smith v. Anniston
Skelton v. Birmingham
Shinutt v. Huntsville

Those cases all say that cussing at a police officer, calling him names and making obscene gestures to one are not disorderly conduct, harassment or any other crime.

Disorderly conduct requires intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof. The courts are very clear that a police officer is not the public and should be able to withstand that behavior based upon their "extensive training". The only way conduct towards an officer can be disorderly conduct is if it is observed by the actual public and those citizens are inconvenienced, annoys, or alarmed.


That is why I said it won't get far in court, but then the question is raised, what is in public? Granted someone could have quietly told the officer to FU, but that is not the way it happens. When they do that they want everyone within earshot to know they did it. Granted all the cases I can think of and been involved in also included other belligerent behavior and/or other charges, usually involving intoxication and our municipal judges always ruled that the behavior was disorderly, but like I said, I don't know of a case where a person wasn't already arrested and quietly told the officer to FU. I do remember one case where a little white girl shot an old officer the bird and he felt it was an obscene gesture and the judge ruled it wasn't and was just "a universal sign of disapproval".

Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.