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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: Zkd22]
#1675228
03/04/16 10:02 AM
03/04/16 10:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
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WmHunter who are you voting for Hillary or Bernie? Ted Cruz. Obviously you are voting for Adolph Hitler.
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: jawbone]
#1675233
03/04/16 10:06 AM
03/04/16 10:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
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For example telling an officer to FO is technically Disorderly Conduct, a criminal offense in Alabama. No it's not. It would be totally inappropriate, unethical and immoral. But it is not a crime.
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: WmHunter]
#1675270
03/04/16 10:26 AM
03/04/16 10:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
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For example telling an officer to FO is technically Disorderly Conduct, a criminal offense in Alabama. No it's not. It would be totally inappropriate, unethical and immoral. But it is not a crime. I already pointed that out and provided case law. But, he says it doesn't matter a cop can still make the arrest and let the courts sort it out. He doesn't care if it is a good arrest or stop, he just sees what he wants and thinks the outcome justifies the illegal search and arrest.
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: WmHunter]
#1675395
03/04/16 12:56 PM
03/04/16 12:56 PM
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outdoorobsession
Unregistered
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outdoorobsession
Unregistered
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Heard some details today on the incident. I won't go into many details as that is not my place to do that, but I will say that if what I'm told is true, there is no doubt this officer is being offered up as a sacrifice to appease the BLM crowd. The investigating agency (ABI) wanted to take the case to the Grand Jury, but the local DA is the one that insisted on an arrest.
There is a great size difference between the two with the officer being much smaller.
The man was not walking home from work or his girlfriend's at 3AM. He had been at a shot house playing cards.
The officer had exhausted all his means of non lethal force (taser and pepper spray) and for lack of a better term, had gotten his ass whipped and was lying on the ground when the man ran on a porch and retrieved a metal paint roller extension pole and was coming back to the officer. The officer shot him 5 times, which is probably the justification for the charge. (overkill).
No video as the vidmic's battery was dead. The mayor acknowledges that he could have gotten the camera batteries with a longer life but he went the cheap route.
It will all come out in the end. I hope justice is served and political pressure or threats of riots are not a part of the final decision. It doesn't matter if the victim had been at a shot house playing cards. He had a right to. And a right to walk down his own street to go to his own home. The cop should have never got out of his car. The cop should have never STARTED a fight with the man. The cop should have never laid hands on the man. The cop violated the CONSTITUTION by laying hands on the man and trying to make an ILLEGAL arrest of the man. The cop was immature, inexperienced and poorly trained. The cop didn't know what the law is about probable cause to make an arrest (hint: you have to have a crime!)(witnessed by the cop). Yeah, we don't know all the facts yet, but we do know the COP started the entire incident. The police chief stated repeatedly that there was "a small altercation and that Mr. Gunn RAN AWAY." The COP started the altercation. If he was a mature, responsible well trained cop who knew the law this never would have happened. The DA did the right thing - from numerous different perspectives - including the fact that if there had been no cop involved the shooter would have been arrested on a murder charge. And arresting the cop now actually might be something that saves his life in the mean time with all the BLM insane thug vigilantes out there. dude..no offense..but your an arsehole. Can I come beat on you with a pole? you gonna lay there and let me? Or are you going to shoot me when I try? bet I know the answer. Damn man..do the job for a freakin week and get off the BLM bandwagon condemning these officers that for some reason..when the truth comes out turn out to be freakin innocent. Whats with your anti police sentiment? These guys do a thankless job for low pay risking their asses so you can rest safely in your home. Give it a break. Im so fed up with this anti police bs then the cops turns out to be trying just to save his dam life. I got an idea..why dont you go patrol montgomery at 230 am. Then..and only then will your opinion matter to me. Outdooor, your post was very immature and inappropriate. I would never get on here and call someone names like that. Not cool or mature adult at all. There is no "anti police sentiment" whatsoever. I am a conservative Christian law and order man. And a Christian ethicist - and a Constitutionalist. I am giving my unbiased opinion as opposed to automatically siding with the police against a black man as most on here are doing. **Automatically** siding with the police against a black man who is walking down his own street near his own house is racism. Racism is sin. Respectfully. Sorry I called you an arsehole. But you didnt answer my question. If youre armed and someone is going to hit you with a painters pole...what are YOU going to do? Pretty simple question. Also , It just seems to me you are making a lot of assumptions and judgements on the officers behavior even if getting out of his vehicle. Which is silly.. Most police dont question you from their vehicle. It is not safe if the person is a criminal. The officers holstered gun is hard to get to, and out if the situation goes south, and someone has a dominant position by being standing outside your car while you are in it. Also, it is hard to open the door and get out if you need to as the person now has control of your door as they are outside, standing, and have more leverage. Most police will exit their car to question a suspect for those reasons. And if there were a lot of burglaries, increased patrols, the officer easily could have thought this person might be a burgler. He would have been deficient in not questioning him.
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: jawbone]
#1675402
03/04/16 01:08 PM
03/04/16 01:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 26,346
Prattville, Alabama
Skullworks
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 26,346
Prattville, Alabama
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Cyber attack on MPD computers now. LEO names and addresses.
"I'm not near as critical about how big they are as I once was. Smiles are more important now! We will grow more deer."
Jimmy G.
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: ]
#1675439
03/04/16 01:44 PM
03/04/16 01:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 27,159
Helena
3toe
Talking Turkey
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Talking Turkey
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 27,159
Helena
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[quote=jawbone]Heard some details today on the incident. I won't go into many details as that is not my place to do that, but I will say that if what I'm told is true, there is no doubt this officer is being offered up as a sacrifice to appease the BLM crowd. The investigating agency (ABI) wanted to take the case to the Grand Jury, but the local DA is the one that insisted on an arrest.
There is a great size difference between the two with the officer being much smaller.
The man was not walking home from work or his girlfriend's at 3AM. He had been at a shot house playing cards.
The officer had exhausted all his means of non lethal force (taser and pepper spray) and for lack of a better term, had gotten his ass whipped and was lying on the ground when the man ran on a porch and retrieved a metal paint roller extension pole and was coming back to the officer. The officer shot him 5 times, which is probably the justification for the charge. (overkill).
No video as the vidmic's battery was dead. The mayor acknowledges that he could have gotten the camera batteries with a longer life but he went the cheap route.
It will all come out in the end. I hope justice is served and political pressure or threats of riots are not a part of the final decision. It doesn't matter if the victim had been at a shot house playing cards. He had a right to. And a right to walk down his own street to go to his own home. The cop should have never got out of his car. The cop should have never STARTED a fight with the man. The cop should have never laid hands on the man. The cop violated the CONSTITUTION by laying hands on the man and trying to make an ILLEGAL arrest of the man. The cop was immature, inexperienced and poorly trained. The cop didn't know what the law is about probable cause to make an arrest (hint: you have to have a crime!)(witnessed by the cop). Yeah, we don't know all the facts yet, but we do know the COP started the entire incident. The police chief stated repeatedly that there was "a small altercation and that Mr. Gunn RAN AWAY." The COP started the altercation. If he was a mature, responsible well trained cop who knew the law this never would have happened. The DA did the right thing - from numerous different perspectives - including the fact that if there had been no cop involved the shooter would have been arrested on a murder charge. And arresting the cop now actually might be something that saves his life in the mean time with all the BLM insane thug vigilantes out there. dude..no offense..but your an arsehole. Can I come beat on you with a pole? you gonna lay there and let me? Or are you going to shoot me when I try? bet I know the answer. Damn man..do the job for a freakin week and get off the BLM bandwagon condemning these officers that for some reason..when the truth comes out turn out to be freakin innocent. Whats with your anti police sentiment? These guys do a thankless job for low pay risking their asses so you can rest safely in your home. Give it a break. Im so fed up with this anti police bs then the cops turns out to be trying just to save his dam life. I got an idea..why dont you go patrol montgomery at 230 am. Then..and only then will your opinion matter to me. Outdooor, your post was very immature and inappropriate. I would never get on here and call someone names like that. Not cool or mature adult at all. There is no "anti police sentiment" whatsoever. I am a conservative Christian law and order man. And a Christian ethicist - and a Constitutionalist. I am giving my unbiased opinion as opposed to automatically siding with the police against a black man as most on here are doing. **Automatically** siding with the police against a black man who is walking down his own street near his own house is racism. Racism is sin. Respectfully. Sorry I called you an arsehole. But you didnt answer my question. If youre armed and someone is going to hit you with a painters pole...what are YOU going to do? Pretty simple question. Also , It just seems to me you are making a lot of assumptions and judgements on the officers behavior even if getting out of his vehicle. Which is silly.. Most police dont question you from their vehicle. It is not safe if the person is a criminal. The officers holstered gun is hard to get to, and out if the situation goes south, and someone has a dominant position by being standing outside your car while you are in it. Also, it is hard to open the door and get out if you need to as the person now has control of your door as they are outside, standing, and have more leverage. Most police will exit their car to question a suspect for those reasons. And if there were a lot of burglaries, increased patrols, the officer easily could have thought this person might be a burgler. He would have been deficient in not questioning him. [/quote] The officer in the Michael Brown case questioned him from his car and he got his ass beat through the window.
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: jawbone]
#1675448
03/04/16 01:51 PM
03/04/16 01:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,266
N. Alabama
Reyn
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,266
N. Alabama
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Here is how the situation should be handled:
#1 a young inexperience officer (especially a white one) should not be alone on patrol on 3rd shift in a poor black high crime neighborhood. He should have a partner with him.
#2 he should just roll down his window and say: " hello, Officer Smith here working the graveyard shift in your neighborhood, is everything ok?"
Gunn: "yes"
Smith: "do you live around here?"
Gunn: "yes, I am on my way home, I work night shift too - I live right there in that house"
Smith: "ok, have a good night and be careful, we have a lot of burglaries around here lately"
Gunn: "ok"
Then all Officer Smith has to do is watch the man go in to his house. End of encounter. No shooting and no news story.
If he doesn't and keeps walking past the house he said he lived in, then Officer Smith investigates further: "hey, you said you lived in that house but you walked past it, why did you tell me a story?".....etc. Emphasis on investigation - as the law/Constitution does not allow the police to arrest someone for mere lying about such a thing. And at that point it would be a good time to call for back up to investigate further.
Do you think a criminal is going to admit to doing bad when you roll down the window and ask is everything ok? If an officer believes someone is up to no good then pulling up to them and trying to investigate by rolling down the window and asking isn't going to cut it. If he is just checking on someone then maybe but I wouldn't pull up close to anyone at 3am. If it isn't a Terry stop then even if he walks past the house it doesn't matter anyway. You still don't have the right to stop and investigate further. He could tell you it's none of your business and drive on cracker. #1 a young inexperience officer (especially a white one) should not be alone on patrol on 3rd shift in a poor black high crime neighborhood. He should have a partner with him You can make this statement as a citizen. If you were an officer or chief and made this statement you wouldn't be employed long.
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: jawbone]
#1675464
03/04/16 02:02 PM
03/04/16 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
OP
Freak of Nature
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OP
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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After thinking on it, I concede that some laws are so poorly written as to be too unclear in their meaning and some unethical officers have been known to take advantage of these in the past. Examples, are mostly found in the minor laws that I've discussed. Disorderly Conduct, Harassment, Failure to Obey, Reckless Driving and many of the Game laws come to mind. Until recently Alabama gun laws fell in this category. Sometimes an officer may enforce these to his interpretation and not know as to court precedent or DA opinions since they receive so little training, especially in areas such as this. Refer back to my dollar sign posts. It takes ethical people to start with and continuous training.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: WmHunter]
#1675466
03/04/16 02:05 PM
03/04/16 02:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
OP
Freak of Nature
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OP
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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For example telling an officer to FO is technically Disorderly Conduct, a criminal offense in Alabama. No it's not. It would be totally inappropriate, unethical and immoral. But it is not a crime. In the wrong place and time it most certainly is.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: WmHunter]
#1675471
03/04/16 02:08 PM
03/04/16 02:08 PM
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outdoorobsession
Unregistered
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outdoorobsession
Unregistered
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Heard some details today on the incident. I won't go into many details as that is not my place to do that, but I will say that if what I'm told is true, there is no doubt this officer is being offered up as a sacrifice to appease the BLM crowd. The investigating agency (ABI) wanted to take the case to the Grand Jury, but the local DA is the one that insisted on an arrest.
There is a great size difference between the two with the officer being much smaller.
The man was not walking home from work or his girlfriend's at 3AM. He had been at a shot house playing cards.
The officer had exhausted all his means of non lethal force (taser and pepper spray) and for lack of a better term, had gotten his ass whipped and was lying on the ground when the man ran on a porch and retrieved a metal paint roller extension pole and was coming back to the officer. The officer shot him 5 times, which is probably the justification for the charge. (overkill).
No video as the vidmic's battery was dead. The mayor acknowledges that he could have gotten the camera batteries with a longer life but he went the cheap route.
It will all come out in the end. I hope justice is served and political pressure or threats of riots are not a part of the final decision. It doesn't matter if the victim had been at a shot house playing cards. He had a right to. And a right to walk down his own street to go to his own home. The cop should have never got out of his car. The cop should have never STARTED a fight with the man. The cop should have never laid hands on the man. The cop violated the CONSTITUTION by laying hands on the man and trying to make an ILLEGAL arrest of the man. The cop was immature, inexperienced and poorly trained. The cop didn't know what the law is about probable cause to make an arrest (hint: you have to have a crime!)(witnessed by the cop). Yeah, we don't know all the facts yet, but we do know the COP started the entire incident. The police chief stated repeatedly that there was "a small altercation and that Mr. Gunn RAN AWAY." The COP started the altercation. If he was a mature, responsible well trained cop who knew the law this never would have happened. The DA did the right thing - from numerous different perspectives - including the fact that if there had been no cop involved the shooter would have been arrested on a murder charge. And arresting the cop now actually might be something that saves his life in the mean time with all the BLM insane thug vigilantes out there. dude..no offense..but your an arsehole. Can I come beat on you with a pole? you gonna lay there and let me? Or are you going to shoot me when I try? bet I know the answer. Damn man..do the job for a freakin week and get off the BLM bandwagon condemning these officers that for some reason..when the truth comes out turn out to be freakin innocent. Whats with your anti police sentiment? These guys do a thankless job for low pay risking their asses so you can rest safely in your home. Give it a break. Im so fed up with this anti police bs then the cops turns out to be trying just to save his dam life. I got an idea..why dont you go patrol montgomery at 230 am. Then..and only then will your opinion matter to me. Outdooor, your post was very immature and inappropriate. I would never get on here and call someone names like that. Not cool or mature adult at all. There is no "anti police sentiment" whatsoever. I am a conservative Christian law and order man. And a Christian ethicist - and a Constitutionalist. I am giving my unbiased opinion as opposed to automatically siding with the police against a black man as most on here are doing. **Automatically** siding with the police against a black man who is walking down his own street near his own house is racism. Racism is sin. Respectfully. By the way...I could care LESS about the race and playing the race card is ridiculous. You made a lot of statements about the officers behaviors like you were some kind of expert. Yet, the way you stated the officer should approach the person were not knowledgable at all about officer safety. That approach may work with Barney Fife in Mayberry approaching Floyd out walking. But at that time of the am, in West Montgomery it could very well get you killed. There are no second chances out there on the street with these officers. They just want to finish their shifts and make it home to their family. Theirs an old saying.."until you walk a mile in another mans shoes...". Just saying. Race has nothing to do with it. I have a black god daughter and to be honest, am the least racist person you could meet. I dont appreciate the racism comment. Kinda lame.
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: jawbone]
#1675474
03/04/16 02:11 PM
03/04/16 02:11 PM
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outdoorobsession
Unregistered
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outdoorobsession
Unregistered
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By the way..I feel sorry for officers these days.
Media is turning the public against them in a thankless dangerous job that doesnt pay near as much as it should.
Thanks to all you guys putting youre arses on the line everyday out there.
A lot of us appreciate it. Yall need a big raise these days..and stay safe.
And even with this kinda crap...dont second guess yourself..or you could be that officer in Bham. And that was broad daylight.
Better to be tried by 12, then carried by 6.
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Re: Just heard MPD officer is charged with Murder
[Re: doekiller]
#1675479
03/04/16 02:16 PM
03/04/16 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
OP
Freak of Nature
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OP
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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Please provide me with examples of how the CJ system is slanted towards the police? Take your time and think on it as I have to work tonight so I'm going to nap for awhile. I could provide dozens. But, I am not going to argue. You will never agree that any conduct by a cop is wrong, you have shown that numerous times. As for your question of "what is the public anyway". The cases I posted are clear on that. It doesn't matter how loud I yell, you fucking pig, motherfucker. It doesn't matter unless they can bring someone to court who says they were effected that isn't a cop. That shit might fly in a muni court where the judge never goes against the city and police because his job depends on it. People should appeal those cases and put them in front of a jury so they can see the idiot cop explain his illegal arrest. I have done it and never lost one. First, I can't tell you how many officers I've had a part in being fired, or in some cases, being sent to prison for misconduct, so to say I don't think some of them do anything wrong is laughable. I do however give them due process first. You are right about cases in Muni court. As long as the judges keep ruling that way, the officers will keep enforcing it that way. Here locally, cases that are appealed are never heard from again. Our DA barely has time for the felonies, must less misdemeanor appeals. It is common knowledge if you have the money on a DUI, just appeal it to Circuit Court and it will eventually go away. I know people that have done this. Sad but true. Remember guys, I am not the enemy, I am one of the good officers who is trying to educate you by giving you a glimpse into the mind of an officer.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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