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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: Fosko]
#1585494
12/29/15 04:52 PM
12/29/15 04:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,634
Centreville AL.
sbo1971
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,634
Centreville AL.
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I have never bought into the moon phase thing and after this season I don't buy into the effect that weather is supposed to have on it either.
Elite Omnia, Easton FMJ, Axcel Landslyde 5 pin slider.
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: Fosko]
#1585523
12/29/15 05:08 PM
12/29/15 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,213
Florence, Al
AlabamaSwamper
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,213
Florence, Al
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Happens like clock work on my place. Hot, cold, full moon, no moon. Same time every year.
BTR Scorer in NW Alabama
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: ]
#1585526
12/29/15 05:10 PM
12/29/15 05:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,689
Chelsea, AL
lefthorn
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,689
Chelsea, AL
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It appears to be that they are genetically programmed to do it when they do it, at the same time each season. Has NOTHING to do with a moon phase or weather parameters. Photoperiod appears to contribute to the timing, but there are other environmental factors that contribute to the predetermined time does come into estrous. Over most of their range from Canada to TX most breeding takes place in November. Then you get to the southern states. You can throw the photoperiod theory out the window altogether. In the lower coastal plain of South Carolina deer breed in September/October. In the lower coastal plain of AL and MS they breed in late January and February. The state of FL has a range of peak dates that covers nearly every month of the year. Deer breed when they are genetically programmed to do so. I guess it is somewhat like the salmon going back to the same exact spot they were born to lay their eggs. Interesting. I feel like it has something to do with the fawn having enough time to "get on its feet" before winter hits. This is why the rut is sooner the farther north you go
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: Fosko]
#1585560
12/29/15 05:20 PM
12/29/15 05:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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I don't think it is the estrous because the bucks are getting ready well before the does, not the other way around. They have to establish their domains and mark it several weeks before the first doe is ready. I think it is something that is just preprogrammed and triggered by length of day, like most annual animal events in nature.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: PapaJ]
#1585587
12/29/15 05:40 PM
12/29/15 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,457
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of a female of any species? Who know, but they sure have led to the demise of many a fine buck (of any species).
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: ]
#1585646
12/29/15 06:10 PM
12/29/15 06:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,329
Northeast Florida
BamaGrad85
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,329
Northeast Florida
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It appears to be that they are genetically programmed to do it when they do it, at the same time each season. Has NOTHING to do with a moon phase or weather parameters. Photoperiod appears to contribute to the timing, but there are other environmental factors that contribute to the predetermined time does come into estrous. Over most of their range from Canada to TX most breeding takes place in November. Then you get to the southern states. You can throw the photoperiod theory out the window altogether. In the lower coastal plain of South Carolina deer breed in September/October. In the lower coastal plain of AL and MS they breed in late January and February. The state of FL has a range of peak dates that covers nearly every month of the year. Deer breed when they are genetically programmed to do so. I agree with most of what Matt said above. A friend shared an article written by a northern hunter (Ohio) who studied the rut for close to 40 years. What he had to say sounded crazy when I heard it, then read the article, but based on what he theorized. His theory has been dead on in the 2 areas I hunt in Alabama the past 4 years I've applied it. I can't remember the guys name but I'm trying to find the article to post on here again. It has to do with the Photo Period stuff. The hunters 1st name was Dennis. I can't remember his last name.
Last edited by BamaGrad85; 12/29/15 06:11 PM.
I came, I saw, so I killed them all......Vern
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: ]
#1585675
12/29/15 06:21 PM
12/29/15 06:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
Fun4all
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
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It appears to be that they are genetically programmed to do it when they do it, at the same time each season. Has NOTHING to do with a moon phase or weather parameters. Photoperiod appears to contribute to the timing, but there are other environmental factors that contribute to the predetermined time does come into estrous. Over most of their range from Canada to TX most breeding takes place in November. Then you get to the southern states. You can throw the photoperiod theory out the window altogether. In the lower coastal plain of South Carolina deer breed in September/October. In the lower coastal plain of AL and MS they breed in late January and February. The state of FL has a range of peak dates that covers nearly every month of the year. Deer breed when they are genetically programmed to do so.  Not being a deer scientist I have thought that for years. That and a little history of whitetails in Alabama, which explains the different timing of the rut and it all seems to go back to genetics of where the herd's origination came from.
"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: 257wbymag]
#1585753
12/29/15 07:10 PM
12/29/15 07:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 889
North Alabama
yelkca280
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 889
North Alabama
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Limestone county has 3 maybe even 4 different distinct ruts. I'm in the extreme early one on my farm. Then it moves later the further south you move to the river. Spot on for limestone co and I believe it to be 4 different zones. Your deer have been wide open in muzzle loader some years and the opening week of rifle on others. Wheeler biologists hold firm to Feb peak. I believe we have at least two different strains of whitetail in the county. We have a slick coat deer with a thin nose that comes to a sharp point in some areas of the county those bucks usually weigh in at about 185 as a mature deer. We also have a red haired deer that is going to weigh 210 as a mature buck and have a heavier rack and usually throws trash on there rack around the age of 6. The crossing of these two strains seems to be the reason we have so many different peak dates in the smallest county I'm Alabama. I'm not a biologist and would love to hear one talk to this subject.
Last edited by yelkca280; 12/29/15 07:29 PM.
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: Fosko]
#1585769
12/29/15 07:26 PM
12/29/15 07:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 697
Tuscaloosa
Snowman257wby
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 697
Tuscaloosa
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South Fayette you can see one after a doe from Christmas till the third week in January. (No theres not a over population of does) But not likely to see it with temps in the 70's Any cold snap for the next few weeks it should be good
"Give me a second" - Stan Potts
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: Fosko]
#1585774
12/29/15 07:35 PM
12/29/15 07:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag
Boo Boo Head
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Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
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Pfffft at the wheeler "biologist"
Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: Fosko]
#1585879
12/30/15 03:08 AM
12/30/15 03:08 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,130
Cullman
CKyleC
(Can't Keep It Up...)
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(Can't Keep It Up...)
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,130
Cullman
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I have a question about the photoperiod theory...
Dec 22 is the shortest day of the year. Therefore, for example Nov.22 and Jan. 22 should have the same # of daylight hours. Why would a place that has a late Jan. rut not have a rut in late Nov. if photoperiod is the biggest contributor.
"In Alabama, we prefer to kill small bucks on big properties"-Turkey247
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: CKyleC]
#1585929
12/30/15 03:55 AM
12/30/15 03:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 64
florida
sml
spike
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spike
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 64
florida
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I have a question about the photoperiod theory...
Dec 22 is the shortest day of the year. Therefore, for example Nov.22 and Jan. 22 should have the same # of daylight hours. Why would a place that has a late Jan. rut not have a rut in late Nov. if photoperiod is the biggest contributor. The photoperiod that has been mentioned in Deer and deerhunting has been the moonlight and the coming of a new moon which is said to trigger a response from the Peniel gland in Does which starts their going HOT phase,if they are not breed within 48hrs then they will come back IN around 28 days later....What was interesting to me was the fact that a doe coming into estrous for the first time will come back into heat the following year at the same time that she was bred the year before for the rest of her life.....
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Re: HUGE can of worms about to be opened, but I would like to know what
[Re: Fosko]
#1586140
12/30/15 05:46 AM
12/30/15 05:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 334
Madison, AL
JohnGibby
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 334
Madison, AL
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Had to go back and find this thread about the deer releases in Alabama from 1925-1998. Map of Alabama deer restocking program ![[Linked Image]](http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h372/mike35549/15410ce0-375c-4dab-bb0b-b3e78caf2adc_zpsb9442331.jpg) Alabama has release deer sourced from within the state and outside the state. In that time frame there have been deer brought in from seven states; Arkansas, Georgia, Michigan, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas & Wisconsin. The fact that the Michigan deer released around Bankhead rut in November indicates to me that genetics plays a huge part. I'm certainly no expert, but the sources I have read indicated that it is a complex mix of genetics, food sources, climate, daylight/photoperiod, and other factors that determine when the rut begins. I will refer to my post from a previous thread, Upcoming Forecast for next 10 days - 12/10/2015 LOL, I didn't mean to stir things up on here, but this has turned somewhat humorous.
I am beginning to think (my wife would probably say, it's about time) that there's something we're missing and it is right in front of us. These deer are female. And there is something, that men have struggled with for centuries, it is to understand females. She will be ready when she is ready and not a moment before. We just have to be in the woods when it happens. She'll be ready when she's ready.
Love God. Love people. Serve Christ.
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