Question for those of you who want no restrictions... Should we have seasons? Should you be able to shoot fawns? If you feel you should be able to kill whatever kind of deer you see how do you justify that?

There is a place for restrictions and rules. They are required because some people cant control themselves. I personally would prefer to keep the 3 buck restriction and allow only 3 bucks to be taken per season.

And before someone says "its my land and I should be able to do what I want on it". It is not your land. Stop paying your property taxes and the State will take it from you.

If you feel you should be able to kill whatever kind of deer you see how do you justify that?

Yes, it is if the neighbors actually do that. The neighbors say the same about all their neighbors. I've heard that same mantra throughout the country, from Florida to New York and Texas to the upper Midwest. It's not always true but it's easy to say and believe.

It's also frustrating to take young kids who don't understand or comprehend anything about "mature bucks" or QDM or why Billy BuckHunter wants him/her to shoot a "big buck" and are told they can't shoot a deer because the doe quota has been met or it's "buck season" or that buck they are watching 40 yards away isn't big enough and they might be able to see it next season when it's bigger and "gosh, wouldn't you WANT to shoot a bigger buck?" ... the implication being that they're not a 'real' hunter if they shoot something little.

And so unless Little Jimmy or Susie is being indoctrinated in the uber-QDM household, they get bored and decide deer hunting is boring, sucks and they don't want to go again because they were't allowed to shoot something due to some crazy management regulations.

Have seen it first hand. Kids want action starting out. They want to pull the trigger. They don't give two chits at that age and stage about mature buck management and QDM or whatever. They merely want to be included in the hunting fraternity, get bloody, see something die and move successfully into that first stage of hunting: actually killing something to become a hunter.

Not having anything to shoot, or being told they can't shoot something "because it's not big enough," will turn them away quickly. Same with duck hunting or fishing. I feel sorry for the adults who tell their kids that a 18-bass day wasn't good because they "didn't catch any big keepers" or their limit of ducks isn't good "because they shot nasty gadwalls and divers."

Hunters are our own worst enemies.

Fawns? Seasons? Sure.



How do you justify imposing a "must be this size and only x-number a season" restriction on others that has a proven, repeatable biologically beneficial outcome in wild deer?

Have seen it first hand. Kids want action starting out. They want to pull the trigger. They don't give two chits at that age and stage about mature buck management and QDM or whatever. They merely want to be included in the hunting fraternity, get bloody, see something die and move successfully into that first stage of hunting: actually killing something to become a hunter.

Personally I think that 3 does and 2 bucks of any type and 1 with 3 or more on one side (6 deer total) is more than enough for someone. I guess I feel more like the indians did. Kill what you need, but not just for sport or the heck of it.

No argumenting or anger here. Just debating. And any "you" is in general terms, not a specific person.

As for "need," this cuts to the crux of the issue, IMO. Who is Bob, or Joe, or the DCNR, or anyone else out there to tell me or Thaddeus or Chuck or Charlie or Troy what we "need" to be doing on our property including the number of deer we "need" each year?

I don't need more than two or three, because my wife doesn't like venison. But I have a good friend with two kids and they eat at least a dozen deer a year. Last year he killed and processed 13 and they ran out in late summer. He probably will put up at least 15 this year. They don't buy meat at the store and have a giant garden. So their need is greater than someone else's. Yet someone would incorrectly say "You don't "need" more than three or four a year." So it shouldn't be on someone else to decide what that family needs.

I know of a hunting tract with some truly screwed-up bucks. Not just one, but multiples at different ages. Their antlers are messed up so it's (with almost certainty) a genetic deal. So the hunter either must shoot does and 2 of his 3 legal bucks and then wait a year, or bring in other hunters (which he may not want to do), or do nothing at all, or hunt illegally to take care of what he sees as a legitimate issue on his property. And yet because people say "You don't need more than three bucks a season, and one must be x-size" then that guy is hamstrung.

Those are exceptions to the general rule, though, I suspect.

I agree with someone who has there own land and is managing there lands , but what about the majority of people across the state. Leased timber lands for instance , where people go in and slaughter everything and move into the next lease . Seems like there could be a solution worked out that would work for everyone .

I, and many others, simply think that the antlerless season should be cut back. Or, if you prefer Regulations, put a couple more blank spaces on a peice of paper and call it a 'Limit' for the good of the herd!

Yes, it is if the neighbors actually do that. The neighbors say the same about all their neighbors. I've heard that same mantra throughout the country, from Florida to New York and Texas to the upper Midwest. It's not always true but it's easy to say and believe.

It's also frustrating to take young kids who don't understand or comprehend anything about "mature bucks" or QDM or why Billy BuckHunter wants him/her to shoot a "big buck" and are told they can't shoot a deer because the doe quota has been met or it's "buck season" or that buck they are watching 40 yards away isn't big enough and they might be able to see it next season when it's bigger and "gosh, wouldn't you WANT to shoot a bigger buck?" ... the implication being that they're not a 'real' hunter if they shoot something little.

And so unless Little Jimmy or Susie is being indoctrinated in the uber-QDM household, they get bored and decide deer hunting is boring, sucks and they don't want to go again because they were't allowed to shoot something due to some crazy management regulations.

Have seen it first hand. Kids want action starting out. They want to pull the trigger. They don't give two chits at that age and stage about mature buck management and QDM or whatever. They merely want to be included in the hunting fraternity, get bloody, see something die and move successfully into that first stage of hunting: actually killing something to become a hunter.

Not having anything to shoot, or being told they can't shoot something "because it's not big enough," will turn them away quickly. Same with duck hunting or fishing. I feel sorry for the adults who tell their kids that a 18-bass day wasn't good because they "didn't catch any big keepers" or their limit of ducks isn't good "because they shot nasty gadwalls and divers."

Hunters are our own worst enemies.

Clem,

How many acres do you have to hunt?