|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
Iso
by AustinC. 05/21/24 05:01 PM
|
|
|
|
|
106 registered members (Mack1, Bowfish, mdavis, Yellahammer, 7PTSPREAD, bamafarmer, BayedUp, metalmuncher, Young20, Epalm88, Lvlhdd, Exhoosier, graydw1, JAT, CAL, Boathand, GomerPyle, TexasHuntress, Irishguy, BhamFred, outdoorguy88, Skillet, hunter84, JRigs10, sfortney32, WEMOhunter, WDE, CNC, weatherby, kodiak06, MAG, mossyback, Atoler, Jweeks, Jwillbucks, Turkeyneck78, CTMS, hamma, lckrn, Ben2, thayerp81, brianr, longshot, twaldrop4, deepwoods44, rblaker, JBrown1975, HDS64, slippinlipjr, AUtgr, jb20, Dog, BamaBoHunter, MikeP, canichols424, !shiloh!, Bruno, KnightRyder, Thisldu, BCLC, PanolaProductions, ALMODUX, crenshawco, GobbleGrunt, Tree Dweller, Parker243, woodduck, Narrow Gap, bfoote, Joe4majors, Tmacfire, AU7MM08, square, hallb, Richard Cranium, Bushmaster, odocoileus, JohnG, Jstocks, tmhrmh1, dawgdr, joe sixpack, HBWALKER14, Cuz-Pat, CrimsonWSM, turfarmer, HHSyelper, Lightfoot, Chiller, Morris, burbank, Bustinbeards, Darrylcom, JCL, bamafan1966, Hoytdad10, 10 invisible),
765
guests, and 0
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: CAL]
#1408632
08/05/15 05:29 AM
08/05/15 05:29 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 50 Auburn, AL
AU_Forester_02
spike
|
spike
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 50
Auburn, AL
|
Hard to say exactly, but usually the big TIMO landowners say 6-7% annual return. You get the biological growth of the timber and the growth in value as it moves up in product class (pulpwood---chip n saw---sawtimber). For a single tract of land, the ROI could vary quite a bit. Your up front cost for site prepping and planting seedlings should be around $200-$400/acre. Being pasture land, you might need to rip the fields with a dozer to reduce soil compaction, that would put you on the high end of the establishment cost. Most pine plantations are 1st thinned around 13-16 years old, 2nd thinned around 20-23 years old and clearcut around 25-35 years old. All of the harvests are generally dependent on market conditions at the time. Assuming normal market conditions you should make a pretty good return. In my opinion, timber and land in general is a great investment. With a single tract of land I wouldn't get too hung up on the % return, just know under normal conditions you will make money on the investment and have a place of you own to hunt/enjoy and pass along to your kids (or sell for a profit years down the road).
"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: aumech2004]
#1408638
08/05/15 05:36 AM
08/05/15 05:36 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 50 Auburn, AL
AU_Forester_02
spike
|
spike
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 50
Auburn, AL
|
Not very much. I am in that line of work. Pine pulp wood is purchased at the mill for around $8 - $10 a ton. So the logger has to get paid out of that. Pine saw logs are a little bit better. But not that much. Hardwood pulp wood runs about $20 a ton. Mills don't pay $8-10 a ton for pulpwood, that is the STUMPAGE rate the landowners get. Mills pay what is called a DELIVERED rate. So if it takes $20/ton for the logger to cut & haul it, and the stumpage rate to the landowner is say $8/ton, then the delivered rate would be $28 (or a little more if the timber buyer/wood dealer had $1-2/ton of profit factored in. No mill could ever wood their mill paying $8-10 delivered prices. Everyone hauling them wood would have a major loss of $ so they wouldn't bother hauling in the first place.
Last edited by AU_Forester_02; 08/05/15 05:37 AM.
"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: CAL]
#1408688
08/05/15 06:39 AM
08/05/15 06:39 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,161 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
Booner
|
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,161
Sylacauga, AL
|
I'm considering purchasing some property around union springs. It is mostly pasture land now. I would plant it in pines to improve the habitat and yield some profits. If managed properly, what could I expect as an ROI? You are gonna get feelthy stenkin rich! Oh wait a minute, you already are. Buy the land and plant the trees and quit wasting money on club memberships.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: Rebelman]
#1408698
08/05/15 06:54 AM
08/05/15 06:54 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,060 Tuscaloosa, AL
Reptar
6 point
|
6 point
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,060
Tuscaloosa, AL
|
8% is reasonable ROI for the timber aspect. Land is a separate line item and is much more difficult to project. I am confused. Are you saying if someone spent $10,000 to plant pines they can expect a 8% ROI when they cut the pines or per year?
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#1408746
08/05/15 07:50 AM
08/05/15 07:50 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,572 Sylacauga
CAL
OP
14 point
|
OP
14 point
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,572
Sylacauga
|
[quote=CAL]I'm considering purchasing some property around union springs. It is mostly pasture land now. I would plant it in pines to improve the habitat and yield some profits. If managed properly, what could I expect as an ROI? You are gonna get feelthy stenkin rich! Oh wait a minute, you already are. Buy the land and plant the trees and quit wasting money on club memberships. [/ This is what i keep telling my wife.
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: jcap03]
#1408750
08/05/15 07:53 AM
08/05/15 07:53 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,572 Sylacauga
CAL
OP
14 point
|
OP
14 point
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,572
Sylacauga
|
Why would anyone plant plant pine on existing pasture land when pasture land is at an all time high in the existence of time. I understand that pines take less maintenance but pasture land and cows are at an all time high. If you do not want to fool with farming and you are paying a price for the pasture land where planting pines is even an option then you must be paying a good price, so why not consider flipping it and buying a piece that has been clear cut or recently planted. I sell land and pasture land is hard to find and is selling for a premium. In my opinion I just can't see buying pasture land and planting it in pines at this time ten years ago yeah but not today it makes no sense at all. There are even people getting 1k an acre to convert clear cut land to pasture land. A man that I've known for a couple years owns it and wants me to buy it. Giving me a good deal but pasture is no good to me. I want deer killin property.
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: CAL]
#1408780
08/05/15 08:14 AM
08/05/15 08:14 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,926 Alabama
Cactus_buck
12 point
|
12 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,926
Alabama
|
I just had my 13 year pines thinned and I got $14 a ton for pine pulp and $10 a ton for hardwood pulp.
Last edited by Cactus_buck; 08/05/15 08:18 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: CAL]
#1408783
08/05/15 08:16 AM
08/05/15 08:16 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,744 Henry county
coldtrail
12 point
|
12 point
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,744
Henry county
|
Plant fruit trees, saw tooth oaks, and corn. I can't stand hunting a pine thicket myself.
"And the days that I keep my gratitude Higher than my expectations Well, I have really good days" Ray Wylie Hubbard
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: Reptar]
#1408811
08/05/15 08:43 AM
08/05/15 08:43 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,687 South Alabama
Rebelman
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,687
South Alabama
|
8% is reasonable ROI for the timber aspect. Land is a separate line item and is much more difficult to project. I am confused. Are you saying if someone spent $10,000 to plant pines they can expect a 8% ROI when they cut the pines or per year? Annual return. Although biologically, it doesn't work that way.
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: Rebelman]
#1408840
08/05/15 09:16 AM
08/05/15 09:16 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,798 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,798
USA
|
8% is reasonable ROI for the timber aspect. Land is a separate line item and is much more difficult to project. I am confused. Are you saying if someone spent $10,000 to plant pines they can expect a 8% ROI when they cut the pines or per year? Annual return. Although biologically, it doesn't work that way. 8% is optimistic IMO. This may also not count the "opportunity cost" of putting up all the money up front and not being able to invest it otherwise. I'm not saying its not possible, just not average.
|
|
|
Re: Timber value question
[Re: Rebelman]
#1408941
08/05/15 10:44 AM
08/05/15 10:44 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,798 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,798
USA
|
If you remove the cost of land all together, which I did since it sounds like he is only trying to make a decision on timber vs field, then 8% is very safe.
For ease of numbers lets say you are going to plant trees on 1 acre of land, let them grow 20 years and harvest them.
Establishment cost: $250 FV at 20 years: $1,000 (85 tons/ac @ $12/ton) ROI = 20%
Of course you have taxes you will have to figure in. Who knows what they will be in 20 years.
Everything has an opportunity cost. Not sure why that would be included in this analysis. As long as ROI is greater than opportunity cost then it is a smart financial decision. Oh ok. Yeah if you take out land costs, 8%. I just thought you were referring to the OP's post and saying he could make 8% off that land purchase price. Carry on
|
|
|
|