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Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1372403
06/19/15 12:33 PM
06/19/15 12:33 PM
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Alabama
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Good stuff, CNC. Fields look great! This week will be the test for fields all across the state.


Originally Posted by CNC
Ya'll are just overthinking it now

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: 3FFarms] #1372439
06/19/15 02:15 PM
06/19/15 02:15 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: 3FFarms
Good stuff, CNC. Fields look great! This week will be the test for fields all across the state.


Thanks 3F...... smile


We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1372447
06/19/15 02:22 PM
06/19/15 02:22 PM
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The durana clover is still holding strong in the understory of the other plants. It’s a little patchy across the field but establishing well in many areas. I’ll add a couple more lbs/ac of seed this fall and continue to fill in the voids. This is year one so I expect it to really flourish more in year two. It’ll be the staple of my summer forage moving forward. I don’t think I’m going to continue to throw out a bunch of things like buckwheat, peas, sunflowers, etc in the future….only to see them devoured in a matter of weeks. I’ll instead focus my summer money on keeping the fertilization needs taken care of. I can show you pictures of nearly a dozen different plant species growing in the field for free that the deer are readily eating. Growing those plants along with a nice understory of clover will do an outstanding job of accomplishing my summer goals with very little cost incurred. All I want during the summer is for the deer to continuously use my field on a routine pattern that they feel comfortable with and grow biomass. I don’t feel like I have to break my wallet with hundreds of dollars of seed to make that happen.

I actually believe clover prefers to grow in this type of condition below. It’s a companion crop and not really meant to stand alone. The other plants provide it with shade. Clover does better when it doesn’t bake all day in the direct sun. As long as it has soil moisture then it can hold its own.



Last edited by CNC; 06/19/15 02:23 PM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1372453
06/19/15 02:32 PM
06/19/15 02:32 PM
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I will have my plots laid by by Sunday pm. Atrazine on grain sorghum and last shot of atrazine roundup going on corn. Then I can put the sprayer up for the summer.



Getting it ready to go!


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: 257wbymag] #1372635
06/19/15 07:48 PM
06/19/15 07:48 PM
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Checked my buckwheat plot today and it has gone to seed and it is suffering. The area for my test throw and mow has not been limed in years. Prior to last fall, we haven't planted this area in years and the wheat did poorly. I forgot to pick up a bag of fertilizer on the way up again but I'm probably going to mow it down soon and fertilize. I'm still planning to do a soil test. I just need to get off my butt and go to the post office.



I secretly tested TNM on two other plots at my club. Both plots were limed, fertilized and planted last fall. The wheat on these plots was much thicker when mowed and the soil was in better condition. I went light on the seed because it was on the club's nickel. I wish I hadn't now because they are doing well. We disked in two plots at the same time I TNMed these plots. The TNM plots were slower to establish (and I was concerned) but they have definitely caught up to the disked plots.



Last edited by bambam32; 06/19/15 07:51 PM.
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1372678
06/20/15 02:37 AM
06/20/15 02:37 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Nice bambam....I was wondering how your plots were coming along. Stress periods will really show any issues that the plants are having. Don't sweat any of it too much this summer. Just experiment a little and get the fields ready for this fall's planting. Cereal grains, clovers, and brassicas are really easy to plant this way. Getting that initial thatch down was one of the most important things you've done. Good job. Now you want to have the current biomass canopy over that surface thatch and begin to decompose it. The wetter the thatch stays, the faster it will decompose. You want to have it at a really advanced state of decomposition come the end of Sept so that your fall seed will not land on top of a layer of intact hay.

Last edited by CNC; 06/20/15 02:38 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1372719
06/20/15 04:21 AM
06/20/15 04:21 AM
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Gonna be some tough looking fields out there come mid week. Sure wish the rain wouldn't have missed us.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1372736
06/20/15 05:05 AM
06/20/15 05:05 AM
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I think we might need to take a step back and reexamine our stance on “weeds” fellas. Some folks would describe this plant as one of the very worst weeds in our fields……I don’t think the deer agree. Is it so horrible that you need to haul your tractor down to the hunting club and spray $100 bottle of herbicide so that the field will look pretty again? How much different is this plant from sunn hemp? One we praise the other we scorn....Why?



Last edited by CNC; 06/20/15 05:05 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1372749
06/20/15 05:27 AM
06/20/15 05:27 AM
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montgomery,al
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i planted sun hemp and buckwheat around 10 days ago on 3 fields for a total of around 4 acres. All i did was spread the seed, bush hog the field, luckily got rain immediately after doing that. Got up the next morning and sprayed the fields.

Checked on them today and they are doing good. 2 of the fields we have been doing throw n mow on for a couple of years now and they looked great. One of the fields this is the first time we have tried this on, it looks great in some areas and bare in some. I would say it is looking good on 70% of the field.

Overall i am very pleased. Saved us a ton of time doing it this way and with this hot dry weather it is saving us having the "mulch" layer covering everything and protecting the seed. Everything is already 2-4" tall and looking good.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: DMC] #1372833
06/20/15 08:42 AM
06/20/15 08:42 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: DMC
i planted sun hemp and buckwheat around 10 days ago on 3 fields for a total of around 4 acres. All i did was spread the seed, bush hog the field, luckily got rain immediately after doing that. Got up the next morning and sprayed the fields.

Checked on them today and they are doing good. 2 of the fields we have been doing throw n mow on for a couple of years now and they looked great. One of the fields this is the first time we have tried this on, it looks great in some areas and bare in some. I would say it is looking good on 70% of the field.

Overall i am very pleased. Saved us a ton of time doing it this way and with this hot dry weather it is saving us having the "mulch" layer covering everything and protecting the seed. Everything is already 2-4" tall and looking good.


That’s awesome DMC…..Glad this method is working for you. smile


We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1372938
06/20/15 12:54 PM
06/20/15 12:54 PM
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Tuscaloosa Co.
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Originally Posted By: CNC
I think we might need to take a step back and reexamine our stance on “weeds” fellas. Some folks would describe this plant as one of the very worst weeds in our fields……I don’t think the deer agree. Is it so horrible that you need to haul your tractor down to the hunting club and spray $100 bottle of herbicide so that the field will look pretty again? How much different is this plant from sunn hemp? One we praise the other we scorn....Why?





Nothing wrong with weeds, as long as they offer the same nutrients to the deer as what folks are planting. Plants being eaten don't always mean that it's good for the deer.

Does this weed in question put as much nutrients back into the soil as sunn hemp?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: N2TRKYS] #1373016
06/20/15 02:31 PM
06/20/15 02:31 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Nothing wrong with weeds, as long as they offer the same nutrients to the deer as what folks are planting. Plants being eaten don't always mean that it's good for the deer.

Does this weed in question put as much nutrients back into the soil as sunn hemp?


Here’s a list of some of the more common field weeds and their nutritive value…..I don’t see marestail on this one but some of the other "weeds" I’ve posted pictures of the deer browsing that I do see on there include Virginia pepperweed, cutleaf evening primrose and ragweed. The pepperweed is 32% crude protein…..the primrose is 20%….ragweed is 21-26%…White clover as an example is listed as 25%….

https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/418/418-150/418-150.html


Here’s something on marestail specifically…..Folks can say what they want but I’m watching it being pretty heavily browsed in my test field. Its not just a matter of a plant or two either. I would say around 40-50% of all the marestail plants in the field show browsing pressure already.

http://www.eattheweeds.com/conyza-canadensis-herb-fire-food-2/

“Per 100g of dry weight the leaves have a small amount of protein and fat, more fiber, good amount of carbohydrates, 8.2 grams ash, 1010 mg of calcium, 280 mg phosphorus, and 2610 mg potassium.”

Last edited by CNC; 06/20/15 02:33 PM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1373026
06/20/15 02:36 PM
06/20/15 02:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
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Awbarn, AL
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Waiting on it to get dark. I’m going to give Otis a pretty good challenge tonight with a 800 yard track at night. I didn’t count them but I think I put about 6 turns in the line. This weeks training line will be a good test for him. Ready for opening weekend and its only June..... grin

Last edited by CNC; 06/20/15 02:37 PM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1373037
06/20/15 02:53 PM
06/20/15 02:53 PM
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Tuscaloosa Co.
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Nothing wrong with weeds, as long as they offer the same nutrients to the deer as what folks are planting. Plants being eaten don't always mean that it's good for the deer.

Does this weed in question put as much nutrients back into the soil as sunn hemp?


Here’s a list of some of the more common field weeds and their nutritive value…..I don’t see marestail on this one but some of the other "weeds" I’ve posted pictures of the deer browsing that I do see on there include Virginia pepperweed, cutleaf evening primrose and ragweed. The pepperweed is 32% crude protein…..the primrose is 20%….ragweed is 21-26%…White clover as an example is listed as 25%….

https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/418/418-150/418-150.html


Here’s something on marestail specifically…..Folks can say what they want but I’m watching it being pretty heavily browsed in my test field. Its not just a matter of a plant or two either. I would say around 40-50% of all the marestail plants in the field show browsing pressure already.

http://www.eattheweeds.com/conyza-canadensis-herb-fire-food-2/

“Per 100g of dry weight the leaves have a small amount of protein and fat, more fiber, good amount of carbohydrates, 8.2 grams ash, 1010 mg of calcium, 280 mg phosphorus, and 2610 mg potassium.”



Are the weeds still producing protein in the winter or just taking up space?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: N2TRKYS] #1373052
06/20/15 03:09 PM
06/20/15 03:09 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Are the weeds still producing protein in the winter or just taking up space?


These are just summer weeds....most of them I guess would be considered reseeding annuals. All of it will terminate at the end of summer. I'll broadcast cereal grains and clovers around the first of October and the summer biomass will be turned into thatch.

Last edited by CNC; 06/20/15 03:09 PM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1373055
06/20/15 03:12 PM
06/20/15 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Are the weeds still producing protein in the winter or just taking up space?


These are just summer weeds....most of them I guess would be considered reseeding annuals. All of it will terminate at the end of summer. I'll broadcast cereal grains and clovers around the first of October and the summer biomass will be turned into thatch.



Also, those weeds aren't adding back to the soil like the sunn hemp is.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: N2TRKYS] #1373072
06/20/15 03:29 PM
06/20/15 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Also, those weeds aren't adding back to the soil like the sunn hemp is.


Why do you say that? What is so different? Do these plants function in a completely different manner than the ones we plant?

It could be partridge pea that's growing wild or an Austrian winter pea that we plant….both plants are legumes that serve the same general function in the plant ecosystem. Same if we’re talking about broadleafs or grasses….It could be millet…milo…crabgrass or Bermuda grass but all of those plants fill the niche of the “grass” specie in the plant ecosystem and bring those certain properties to the table. One of the big advantages for why people grow sunn hemp is for its ability to produce large amounts of woody biomass. That’s one of the major benefits your getting…high C:N ratio biomass production. IF deer decimate the field and it doesn't produce that biomass then those advantages are lost. You can read all you want to about the advantages of buckwheat and incorporating its biomass back into the soil but the reality in plots like mine ends of being a field of little browsed off stalks.... not a field of biomass. This is where these other plants we consider “weeds” have the advantage. They are going to actually out compete these other plants like sunn hemp and buckwheat from a soil health perspective because they can actually withstand the browsing pressure and still produce that massive crop of biomass. These plants are still taking up nutrients from the soil and recycling them into OM as well.


We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1373085
06/20/15 03:43 PM
06/20/15 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Also, those weeds aren't adding back to the soil like the sunn hemp is.


Why do you say that? What is so different? Do these plants function in a completely different manner than the ones we plant?

It could be partridge pea that's growing wild or an Austrian winter pea that we plant….both plants are legumes that serve the same general function in the plant ecosystem. Same if we’re talking about broadleafs or grasses….It could be millet…milo…crabgrass or Bermuda grass but all of those plants fill the niche of the “grass” specie in the plant ecosystem and bring those certain properties to the table. One of the big advantages for why people grow sunn hemp is for its ability to produce large amounts of woody biomass. That’s one of the major benefits your getting…high C:N ratio biomass production. IF deer decimate the field and it doesn't produce that biomass then those advantages are lost. You can read all you want to about the advantages of buckwheat and incorporating its biomass back into the soil but the reality in plots like mine ends of being a field of little browsed off stalks.... not a field of biomass. This is where these other plants we consider “weeds” have the advantage. They are going to actually out compete these other plants like sunn hemp and buckwheat from a soil health perspective because they can actually withstand the browsing pressure and still produce that massive crop of biomass. These plants are still taking up nutrients from the soil and recycling them into OM as well.



I wouldn't think that buckwheat would stay ahead of heavy deer browsing to offer much "biomass" benefit. Are the deer keeping your sunn hemp browsed to levels below what your weeds are producing?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1373094
06/20/15 03:54 PM
06/20/15 03:54 PM
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257wbymag Offline
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Well so why then does grant woods and his group not just tell everyone to let their summer annuals suffice for summer plots. By those numbers on protein why don't we have booners all over then if weeds provide that much high quality protein? Just asking


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: 257wbymag] #1373111
06/20/15 04:06 PM
06/20/15 04:06 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
Well so why then does grant woods and his group not just tell everyone to let their summer annuals suffice for summer plots. By those numbers on protein why don't we have booners all over then if weeds provide that much high quality protein? Just asking


Beats me...... Are you saying that the reported numbers in the links are incorrect?

Last edited by CNC; 06/20/15 04:06 PM.

We dont rent pigs
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