I guess those are good and noble things, but what do they have to do with preserving and furthering wild turkey populations and wild turkey hunting opportunities? Seems like the #1 priority should be figuring out what is happening to the wild turkey populations in a bunch of states and how to correct and reverse it. Otherwise, you can get all the kids, women, and disabled folks outdoors you want but they aren't going to have any turkeys to hunt if the trends continue.

BTW, I've been informed that apparently the land was donated to the NWTF, not bought by the NWTF... Changes the circumstances quite a bit, in my mind...

We actually have GIANT wheat fields everywhere around up here. My neighbors have about 2000 acres of winter wheat right now. It is wheat until mid spring then 50% corn 50% beans.

We used to have a good population. Enough that we thought we were going to be able to hunt them soon. (Im in the area where there is NO hunting allowed at all.)

We also have a ton of food plots in Durana clover everywhere. My neighbors too. Im speaking of over 5000 acres of land too. 70% are ag fields, 20% mixed woods with pines and hardwoods..lots of acorns, 10% swamp or creek bottom.

One flock of around 30 birds,..including 5-6 nice longbeards would be around my property everyday around 6 - 7 years ago. Id hear some good gobbling in early spring too.

But in less then a year they all were gone...and Ive not seen another turkey again.

It seemed to coincide EXACTLY with my neighbor fertilizing with chicken litter. After that summer not another turkey for going on 6 years. I think theres definitely a correlation.

Also, I know Fish and Game is concerned about it. I was at a meeting at the Swan Creek WMA that was hosted by a bunch of biologists working on the turkeys and asking landowners for their input.
They had a biologist from Auburn there as well as a few Fish and Game Biologists.

Was run by a young guy..with big ears...kinda funny looking..but I guess he was some kind of state biologist for fish and game with some degree or something.

I tell you...for a young guy he did seem to know alot...one of those geeky high filutin college educated computer types I reckon ..( Matt Brock..lol)

Just joking Matt! lol..

It was run by our very own Matt Brock...and he did a good job too.

So the state is trying to figure it out.


I cant say its high predators as we BLAST every coyote or bobcat seen. It seemed to me to be much more related to the chicken litter. Those coyotes had been about the same even when I was seeing a bunch of birds.

The only DIFFERENCE was the introduction of the chicken litter as fertilizer. IMO.

Could've been worded better I didn't mean all the property..

I support the NWTF 100%, and love what they do and have done. I also know that biologist such as Matt Brock are credible, know what they are doing, and I think do a great job. Alabama is the best state in the nation for hunting just about all species, imo. But it is strictly limited to the southern portion of the state. If it was feasible for myself and my family, or if was a bachelor with no family, I'd move just to fuel my turkey hunting passion.

There can be birds in limestone and Lauderdale county, they flourished for several years after restocking efforts. They can flourish north Into Tennessee in Giles and Lawrence county. It was a sudden loss in birds, in about two from 2006-2008, in this area. There are no birds in areas where they used to be many. No habitat changes, AT ALL. I can vouch for mr. Rockhound, because he and I have seen the same thing within the same areas over the same period of time.

I still believe the turkeys will "reload and repopulate" themselves, but it has been a slow process. All we can do as land owners and or mangers up here is take matters into our own hands and provide for the wild turkey all we can. This doesn't mean filling up a 50 gallon corn feeder and calling it even, this means do what you can to promote nesting and brooding habitat.

That is all we can do. Maybe, just maybe one day the biologist of AL will focus a little more on it than the the blackbelt, and TN biologist will start listening to the people.

End rant.

[quote=btbab10]It was a sudden loss in birds, in about two from 2006-2008, in this area. There are no birds in areas where they used to be many. No habitat changes, AT ALL. I can vouch for mr. Rockhound, because he and I have seen the same thing within the same areas over the same period of time.

See my post two above yours!

That is THE EXACT time period we lost all our birds as well. Were farmers fertilizing with chicken litter from poultry farms there too?
And youve never seen such great turkey habitat. You look at it and it screams PERFECT for TURKEYS. Agfields with creek bottoms, wooded hollows and hills. Looks like in the midwest where in similiar terrain there would be tons of birds.

One more thing to add....

There are some true turkey hunters/killers/people or whatever yall call them that live in the north part of Alabama. But there are not near as many. People down south have been "farming for turkeys" forever, where as up north, not many people even care. It isn't in their DNA to kill turkeys.

Help me understand - what is the correlation between chicken litter & lack of birds? We've used chicken litter for years on our farm, and our populations are GROWING (in SE AL).

BGD

Yes, ever since the economy went to hell in 2007, farmers went the cheaper route of spreading chicken litter instead of fertilizer, which I don't blame them, they trying to make a living.

I do know that chicken litter is a possible cause, causing disease, but until proven I think it was weather or other factors stacked up several years in a row that detrimented poult survival, and we are still recovering. The invasion of armidillos in 2007 as will as stupid feral hogs have not helped.

I have heard dont use litter as well because it will kill turkeys .

Now this is a plausible explanation that I could believe in. Perhaps chicken litter spread AT THE WRONG TIME could be a factor, but I'm telling you -- my dad started spreading chicken litter on our 300 acre farm YEARS ago & we've not seen a detrimental impact to our turkey populations at all. None.

BGD

Improper composting or heat cycle of contaminated litter can carry pathogens harmful to Avians such as turkeys. Chickens are vaccinated against these diseases in some cases but when it hits the field turkeys are susceptible. But there again Alfa is behind chicken growers so good luck with us getting anything changed there

we dont have any hogs at all in our areas. And I didnt see an armadillo all year.

For the life of me I cant figure it out. And that is the only thing I saw different. If it has happened in a lot of areas (even in TN I have heard) where they went to chicken litter then there might very well be a correlation. The biologists at the meeting were trying to figure it out.

I have heard that turkeys can get the blackhead disease from chicken litter. Also that any avian sickness can be transferred to the turkeys, maybe one that domestic chickens dont perish from..but wild turkeys do.

I has been said to cause disease called blackhead, which effects the liver and cecum of wild turkeys. In short, there is a parasite eggs and ceca worms that go through the chicken, and then distributed through the field. The turkeys can eat a ln earth worm or something in the field, that earth worm would be host to ceca worm eggs, turkeys eat it, then get sick from the ceca worm.

Something like that. Get a real biologist or a poultry specialist guy to tell you better.

That is exactly what I had heard and was reffering to.

And that is also what I referred to. I see we all have heard the exact same things too.

Wow, 10-4; I'm not disputing what you guys are saying, just trying to understand what "biological" deal is going on w/chicken litter & turkeys... Admittedly, now, MOST of the turkeys that are on our land have roosting & nesting locations on neighboring property where the use of litter is NOT being used at all (can't, it's forested)... But, my dad spreads litter out on our pastures all the time, and birds are feeding in those pastures frequently...

Interesting; I'll have to ask around about this & see what others are seeing...

BGD

Chickens are somewhat resistant to this disease. It has a high mortality rate to turkeys.

Last year, the TN biologist were at checking stations taking birds killed opening weekend and testing them, supposedly for blackhead. I still haven't heard any info about it. I thought it was silly, they die pretty quickly if they get blackhead, not sure what they were going to find, but hey, they are the biologist, they got the degree for it, so I will trust them for now.

That is why I said earlier that I do not think it is litter, but if it is, I could believe it.

Farmer's did not start spreading more litter in 2007. It isn't like they could ramp up litter production because fertilizer got more expensive. Litter has been being produced and used for fertilizer for a long time.