</a JR Holmes Oil Company </a Shark Guard Southeast Woods and Whitetail Mayer Insurance Services LLC
Aldeer Classifieds
7 Ft Finishing Mower
by rutwad. 06/14/24 06:12 AM
Sbc engine
by Dan4good. 06/13/24 11:11 PM
Tracker Pro team txw
by Bronco 74. 06/13/24 10:56 PM
Craftsmen tiller
by 1faststang. 06/13/24 08:40 PM
Winchester Model 12
by Turkeyneck78. 06/13/24 08:21 PM
Serious Deer Talk
New Tracking Rules
by cartervj. 06/13/24 11:27 PM
Lake Martin Community Hunting Area?
by oakachoy. 06/13/24 05:43 PM
Hunting Lease Insurance
by mw2015. 06/10/24 09:45 AM
Feeders and Hogs
by PYhunter. 06/09/24 10:27 AM
Blood Trailing Breeds
by 2 ducks. 06/08/24 07:48 PM
June
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Land, Leases, Hunting Clubs
Diamond Mountain Club
by Stoney. 06/09/24 08:30 PM
Hunting Club Jefferson/Tuscaloosa Line
by Austin1. 06/07/24 09:08 PM
Wayne county tn leases
by brushwhacker. 06/05/24 06:13 PM
Looking for a couple guys
by MoeBuck. 05/25/24 06:25 PM
Tunnel Springs 1 more member
by extreme heights hunter. 05/23/24 10:17 AM
Who's Online Now
107 registered members (canine933, Gav-n-Tn, Bulls eye, ALMODUX, Shmoe, Ol’Tom, Showout, Sus scrofa Reduction Specialist, DEADorALIVE, jchurch, RockFarmer, oakachoy, 10 POINT, CAL, abolt300, BearBranch, QDMAV8R, kyles, m97, Tree Dweller, Justice, Snuffy, bholmes, Ridge Life, georgiaboy1970, Gunner211, !shiloh!, BPI, lectrode, Shotts, Clayton, wk2hnt, Chaser357, CeeHawk37, JohnnyLoco, jake5050, WC82, MarkAlan, DGAMBLER, mossyback, MDBeach7, CrappieMan, RebFormanUDA, Narrow Gap, Ar-Humter, Solothurn, icducks, BamaPlowboy, Buckwheat, Tall Dog, sawdust, jhardy, Canterberry, misfire, MarkCollin, BCLC, Fedex 1, Macon176, klay, MoeBuck, Cynical, geeb1, Bustinbeards, capehorn24, Fattyfireplug, PourIron12, Scooter7, bowkl, deadeye48, The Big Cheese, NotsoBright, Prohunter3509, FreeStateHunter, 300gr, Mdees, Nightwatchman, Huntn2feed5, mw2015, brokefixer, Paint Rock 00, JHL, rutwad, scrubbuck, Richard Cranium, Longtine, Reaper, mathews prostaff, Multi-Tool, Jtd, 4Tigers, Jstocks, JohnG, billrv, Brian_C, gcr0003, PikeRoadHunter, Reload410, SouthBamaSlayer, 9 invisible), 422 guests, and 0 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Question for the timber folks [Re: Fuzzy_Bunny] #1132355
11/01/14 08:49 AM
11/01/14 08:49 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 12,481
Pike County, AL
Fuzzy_Bunny Offline OP
Booner
Fuzzy_Bunny  Offline OP
Booner
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 12,481
Pike County, AL
I did my homework before making the sale and weighed my options and discussed them with multie people who know finance and timber.

A lot of good advice has been given, and my post may have been poorly written, but i was more interested in what I need to watch out for on a daily basis while the timber is actually being cut, such as looking at roads and making sure boundaries are being obeyed.

I am excited to see this happen and prehaps a bit anxious, so I just thought I would see what advice others had to say.

The thing that surprises me most in this post is people saying lump sum is the way to go. The people I talked to all said it is just like any other contractor bidding a job. They have to bid it to make a profit, and will err on the side of caution when forming out large sums of cash.

Last edited by Fuzzy_Bunny; 11/01/14 08:56 AM.
Re: Question for the timber folks [Re: Rebelman] #1132359
11/01/14 08:52 AM
11/01/14 08:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,708
Opelika ,AL
bwhunter Offline
8 point
bwhunter  Offline
8 point
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,708
Opelika ,AL
Originally Posted By: Rebelman
I have opened lump sums and truly felt sorry for he buyer.

If a lump sum is done correctly all the risk is on the buyer.


Agreed. If you have a good estimate of the timber volumes there's little risk to the landowner on a lump sum sealed bid. We always state that the owner has right to refuse any or all bids.
The advantages of lump sum are that you get paid up front for your timber, and you don't have to stay on the logger for product sorts. If you have a competitive market, I believe the landowner comes out better on lump sum sales most of the time.
Once the contract is closed, the landowner is paid and is guaranteed the price.
With pay as cut, there is always a risk that all of your timber won't get cut. You can get stuck with 80% of your timber cut, then it gets too wet and there's not enough left for them to justify bringing their equipment back. And plenty of other scenarios where the job doesn't get completely finished. If it's bought lump sum, you better believe they will get all of the wood cut.
We had a bid opening this week. Our value estimate of the timber was $56,500.
We had 7 bids ranging from $39,000 to $66,000. We feel like our landowner was paid more than market value and I'll bet the buyer won't lose any money.
It is sometimes hard to compare unit prices when different dealers are hauling similar products to different mills. On the fringe of a market some dealers may haul canterwood and pay $13 per ton while a different buyer says it's too far to haul canterwood and he takes it to the pulp mill for $10 a ton.
Unless you have very limited markets it's difficult to compare unit prices on a sale with multiple products and mill options.
I am a consulting forester and we usually charge a commission for our services. Our goal is to get the landowner the most money for their timber and we sell alot of timber lump sum.
Operator select thinnings are sold pay as cut as well as sales where the majority of the volume is in one or two products that are going to a certain mill.

Re: Question for the timber folks [Re: timbercruiser] #1132409
11/01/14 10:46 AM
11/01/14 10:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,917
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,917
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: timbercruiser
I use to sell a lot of timber lump sum for clients in NW FL. One tract I sold I had estimated about $190,000 as the price. I had 6 bids, the first 5 were within $10,000 of my estimate and the last one I opened was $300,000. The old boy had an error in his bid, but he paid up and lost his butt. That was one of the worst mistakes I have seen, but I knew him and it tickled the crap out of me.


That ol' boy have the "big eye" that bad or a huge math error? eek



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Question for the timber folks [Re: 2Dogs] #1132418
11/01/14 10:57 AM
11/01/14 10:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,654
Tuscaloosa Co.
N
N2TRKYS Offline
Booner
N2TRKYS  Offline
Booner
N
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,654
Tuscaloosa Co.
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs
Originally Posted By: timbercruiser
I use to sell a lot of timber lump sum for clients in NW FL. One tract I sold I had estimated about $190,000 as the price. I had 6 bids, the first 5 were within $10,000 of my estimate and the last one I opened was $300,000. The old boy had an error in his bid, but he paid up and lost his butt. That was one of the worst mistakes I have seen, but I knew him and it tickled the crap out of me.


That ol' boy have the "big eye" that bad or a huge math error? eek



Or the mill really needed it.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Question for the timber folks [Re: Fuzzy_Bunny] #1132419
11/01/14 10:57 AM
11/01/14 10:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,917
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,917
Boxes Cove
Lot of good info to digest above. We've had several thousand acres of hardwood cut over the years and never sold any lump sum. The hiring a retired , trustworthy person to check loads is a great idea. About 10 years ago when we had our big tract cut, my father was retired and he went to the log woods every day. He carried his lunch and stayed all day some, folks thought he worked for the logger laugh . He wasn't checking the logger as much as all the various mills the timber was delivered to. He'd scale every load and if there was much difference at all, he took a ride to the mill.

Like someone above said, bout the only way you get a premium price on lump sum is to have some super high grade timber and bid it.

Just do your home work and try to settle with someone that has a spotless reputation. As the Gipper said " trust but verify"



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Question for the timber folks [Re: Fuzzy_Bunny] #1132502
11/01/14 12:09 PM
11/01/14 12:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,891
Monroe County, AL
D
deadeye Offline
14 point
deadeye  Offline
14 point
D
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,891
Monroe County, AL
Lump sum makes sense sometimes but I don't like to be obligated to the buyer and like to keep the option to demand they pack up and leave if I don't like their operation. You definitely want a performance bond in a lump sum deal. I recommend you hire a professional to put it together for you and manage the sale which is an additional quite sizable expense. BUT - if you don't know anything about selling timber or replanting it is money well spent.

Last edited by deadeye; 11/01/14 12:15 PM.

A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams

He alone is educated who has learned the lessons of open-mindedness

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Aldeer.com Copyright 2001-2024 Aldeer LLP.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.094s Queries: 14 (0.018s) Memory: 3.1759 MB (Peak: 3.3879 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2024-06-14 12:04:34 UTC