We have some land at the WSFA TV tower in south Montgomery county that has a few hogs on it. They range in and out of the area.

I have noticed this as well. Hogs and deer will compete for acorns and other mast but for the most part I think hogs are eating roots and other things under the soil where deer are mostly eating leaves and grasses.
I have also seen hogs and deer do well together. I have a buddy that has some land in south Dallas county and it has a pretty fair hog population and more deer than you can shake a stick at. You literally get tired of seeing deer while you are stalking pigs down there, but they are selective about what they shoot and for the most part let does walk.

As I stated in an earlier post, the very best free range deer hunting properties in South Alabama have had hog populations for years.
I also believe tnat the very things that people are doing for deer management( supplemental feeding and creating clearcuts to name a couple) are helping to contribute to a thriving hog population.
A couple of other random thoughts:
If I had a choice of trapping hogs or coyotes on my property, I would choose trapping coyotes.
Alligators kill a good many deer. I have seen alligators swimming around with grown deer in their mouths on several occasions.

If this is known to be the case , why are we not allowing dogs in there to eradicate them? Why don't we allow deer rifles in there year round? If they are running the deer off what does it matter if a few deer are poached if we can thin the hawg herd some? Until the powers that be decide to get rid of them they are gonna expand their territory. Encourage folks to kill them with any weapon any time of year and they MIGHT slow them down.

Fire fighter bill you have a good point. I've often wondered this same thing myself.

I agree on the reproduction rates. I have skinned a lot of sows and rarely find one with more than 7 little ones. 5 or 6 is more the norm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJWkKoH88DQ

Here is a video Jager Pro did on pig survival. I have believed for some time that little pigs don't get hit hard by predators. Sickness is more of a threat than predators I think.

two big differences in deer and hogs concerning babies and predation...
1. a hog sow is a lot more aggressive and ABLE to defend her young
2. a deer will leave the fawn(s) alone for hours, sows are usually right with the pigs. Makes a difference when mom is right there.

Dog hunters don't eradicate hogs. They catch a few and keep the hogs on such sporadic patterns it makes it nearly impossible to trap them. The forest service allows dogs for hogs all summer, as well as high-powered rifles. It sounds like a good idea in theory, but the amount of participation during the hot, humid, tick and snake infested summer in mountainous terrain is minimal. There is no difference in hog damage or reports from forest service and WMA lands. If hog dog hunters made a difference it would be apparent. We are actively trapping entire sounders and conducting strategic shooting operations at night. We are doing what we can. The powers that be have enough information to make informed decisions, and opening a WMA up to dog hunters and year round rifle hunters for hogs is not going to happen. Research has shown constant disturbance is counter productive to trapping effort. Right now we are catching 12-22 hogs per catch in traps. That's removing entire family groups at a time. Instead of catching a few hogs here and there. Hog hunters can probably catch as many as a trapper if you look at the numbers on a per day basis, but they can't strategically remove every hog and move over the landscape catching hogs and removing every individual.

I know that can both inhabit the same territory. But, I also know that I am working properties that are covered in pigs now. And these properties were once outstanding deer and turkey hunting properties. I do believe there is a negative impact on the deer and turkeys when the hog population gets out of hand.

Well if you need any help with the night shooting , I have a 300 blackout AR15 and a couple boxes of sub sonic ammo thats reserved for hog killin.

Strategic removal??

100 dead hogs IS 100 dead hogs! No more, no less....

You guys are letting propaganda get in the way of common sense!

Now, before you get all huffy again. Just sit back a little while and think about it.....you are acting like hogs NEVER move, NEVER spread, ranges don't overlap, etc.

The EXACT same argument that YOU are making about no noticeable difference between the WMA land and the FS land can be made that the 'Capture the Sounder' theory is bogus as well.

Daniel,

I have no doubt you enjoy your dogs and hunting hogs. And I honestly hope you get to enjoy both forever.

But, let me ask you this. I keep up with the sex of every hog we catch and shoot via the business. There is no way to control the sex of the hogs caught in the trap, but we work hard to target sows/females whenever possible. And no matter how hard we try and can't get away from a 50/50 kill ratio.

My question is: Do you kill along the same ratio when dog hunting. I realize that the big boars may get all the pictures. And you may kill more sows than I see in pictures posted. But, it seems like dog hunting really hammers the boars much harder than the sows. And there is nothing wrong with that. And it makes sense. Boars roam much more.

But, you continue to discredit the trapping techniques and approaches. I think the entire sounder approach is very effective and corral traps are much more effective than box traps and traps with plywood doors. I know you are passionate about what you do. Hang in there and don't loose your creditability.

One thing at a time. First, I'm not huffy. When I get huffy I don't post on here. I cool off and come back later.

100 dead hogs is NOT always equal to 100 dead hogs. Look at it like this. What is more effective? Scenario 1). If I kill 100 random pigs scattered over a 20,000 acre area. Scenario 2). If I remove 100 hogs from a single section of that 20,000 acres, monitor with cameras after removal, move to another 640 acre section and remove 100 more, continue to move outward as go, monitoring the areas we have already successfully trapped, and so on. Propaganda? Not so. That is common sense.

I use a lot of common sense and years of scientific information, research, and experiences to make good decisions. We are very strategic with our hog control. When I first got here and started trapping hogs we had random small traps over large areas, didn't use cameras, performed shooting operations near or at bait sites, and just really did some unintelligent stuff. I've learned a lot in three years. Now we are more strategic, using very large corral traps, monitoring with cameras, capturing entire sounders at a time, removing stubborn hogs that don't like traps with NV AFTER we have already trapped all their buddies, monitoring areas after removal, and having dang good success at it. We don't shoot hogs in areas we are trapping. I learned the hard way that is a surefire way to decrease success per amount of effort. Three dead hogs by random shooting is NOT the same as holding off for two weeks and catching 22 in one trap!

As for hog travel, dispersal, and movements....I understand hog movements.I understand them even better when they are not being harassed 12 months out of the year. That's all I'm saying about that.

Like Barry said, I understand you are very passionate about this sport, and your dogs. That's ok. I'm also passionate about our natural resources, and look at it from a much broader point of view. I don't narrow it down to what deer are doing to turkeys, or deer, or quail. I have to make decisions based on what the entirety of environmental, social, cultural, hydrological, etc impacts are by hogs. Looking at it from this perspective the threat they pose is real, it's here, and I am not interested in catering to ONE single group of recreational hunters over making decisions that benefit the wildlife and habitat that I love to manage for.

Oh, forgot one thing. We are starting to see a very big difference in the areas where we have successfully removed every hog we know about. Are we getting them all on camera? Well no, and we know that. But we are certainly starting to see very minimal damage compared to areas we aren't trapping. So, no, the same argument can not be used.

Ok, let's 're-visit' this again....
You missed the point and changed the parameters on the scenario.
I know very well that 3 does not equal 22!
But, 3 = 3 and 22 does = 22!!!!!
And, I am sorry, but the fact that you removed all the hogs off of a very small area doesn't mean much since the surrounding areas are still populated fully! Are you building a fence as you move outward to present migration back into these areas?? If not, why do you feel that they will not move back??

Barry,
I am not saying that the trapping technique does not work. But, to spew forth propaganda and to claim complete removal is a farce! Even though a DCNR employee defended the efforts on Ft Benning in another thread; according to ALL sources.....the area is STILL heavily populated with hogs!
There is not one single documented record of widespread EXTERMINATION of a long-term population utilizing these techniques and we both know it. I understand marketing......and realize that if you and others are upfront and open about the long term costs and amount of continued effort it requires to lower and possibly remove a hog population that people will be reluctant to pay for these services. It is the nature of the business.

I am NOT concerned about my 'credibility'. I was hunting hogs quite successfully before I ever even knew what the internet was AND before most all of the internet removal specialists ha even seen a wild hog. So, don't fret over that.

Oh, and I forgot....

I suspect that we catch MORE sows, shoats and pigs...maybe even 2 or 3 to 1. Yesterday was quite typical. We caught 1 big gilt that was bred, 2 shoats (1 boar and 1 gilt) and a decent boar. But, I have become reluctant to post pics of them if they are ripped or torn by the dogs due to some of the negative publicity. But, I do enjoy catching the big boars and barrs! I try to put the dogs on their tracks and target them. Especially on my personal properties that I hunt. I am not seeking to eradicate them on those properties...just control them and provide opportunities at trophy hogs, which are highly desirable to most people. Most people don't even care to see pics of a bunch of dead shoats and pigs. BUT, that same person enjoys seeing pics of trophy hogs with large tusks!

As much as the ALDCNR and it's Biologist hate it.....Sport Hunting of hogs IS enjoyed by a fairly large segment of the hunting community.

Daniel,

When it comes to killing hogs, 100 does NOT equal 100.

Example: I shoot and trap 100 hogs off of a place during the spring and early summer. By the end of that period I have removed 80-90% of the hogs from the property. And is always the case the ratio is almost 50/50 boar and sow. That fall the landowner will notice a large decrease in the hog population.

If someone else comes in and removes 100 hogs from the property but they don't embrace my tactic of hammering sows first and their ratio is 80/20 boars to sows. There will still be many more hogs still on the property come fall.

If you assume that each sow would have had 1 litter of just 5 piglets during that year. The difference would be 350 pigs to 200 pigs. So, 100 does not always equal 100.

Presumptive math at it's best!!

Face it.....the two biggest differences are this......1) a trapper/shooter wants NO competition and can blame his lack of success on 'pressure'. 2) Most dog hunters are hunting for enjoyment, or Sport. And, they are not ashamed to say so. That does not make the hogs they take any less 'dead' though!

A dog hunter does not care. Trap and shoot all you want! I can still cast out where there are hogs and the dogs WILL find them!

Heck, my success rate goes WAAYYYY up on large properties that I have exclusive access to un-pressured hogs, too!

You can't compare apples to oranges and make assumptions based on presumed variables and come up with sound data. You have to look objectively at the real-life hard data and results.